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Monarchs Own 
Posted: 29-Aug-2006, 03:58 PM
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Before I came to the US I never heard of eutanization like this before.

In Germany they don't do that. Animals only get put down when they are very sick or very aggressive and are beyond everything. But they do try.

Here it's definatly a problem. People just breed what they think is cool or cute. Sorry. I had one a neighbor who wanted to breed her St. Bernhard with my Great Dane. I told her my boy only would breed Great Danes and nothing else. Why would I want to mess around with DNA. St. Bernhard are breed for a total different purpose then Great Danes. But that shows me how people don't care.

I am not to fond of people having any kind of dog and they don't know what they are doing. Especially with the so called fighting breeds like Pit Bull etc. They are nice and sweet but than they turn. Sure it's mostly breeding and upbringing and that's where the problem lies. Here they sell on every streetcorner Pit Bull Puppies for a cheap price. They are now trying to stop it. It's forbidden to sell or give away animals like this here but the police and animal patrol can't be everywhere.

Just a few weeks back I called animal patrol because somebody dumped a cage full of gunea pigs over the fence next to our property (it's a small forrest there). First it took them hours to come out. I called at 8 am and they didn't show up till 2 pm. Then the guy couldn't catch them. Well of course not - they are quick. So he just let them run. He said it would be to hard to catch them. Well, I asked if they don't have traps? He said not for so small animals. they are too light for the cattraps. Well so I guess they are still in that part of the forrest somewhere. Hope they are doing fine. I just think it's cruel to do that. Wish I could find that person and dump him or her over the fence.

I have rescued so far several animals. Our dog is a rescue from the streets of Kansas City. One cat was adopted from a shelter and one was a stray. We found the owners and they didn't want her anymore even though they still did have to make payments for her at the place they bought her. She is a purebred cat. Don't know what exactly she is but she looks like a ragdoll or so.

I hate these shelter which kill animals shortly after they got them in. I wish I could do something about it. Just don't know what. If I had enough money I would buy a big enough property and take them in.


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 29-Aug-2006, 04:45 PM
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It's wretched what is done with so-called pit bulls, and the police here either can't or won't do a thing about it. I think the cops are on the take with the betting sometimes, frankly, because there's an unbelievable amount of money going around about these dogs. There's any number of young guys in my 'hood who pretend to be "breeders" and have all kinds of pure bulls*** knowlege about what makes a good dog -- and what that means, is what makes a jinky, aggressive, unpredictable and intimidating dog who will tear another dog apart with almost no provocation. The meanest and most unpredictable dogs are deliberately bred for that quality. The females are bred to death, one litter after another with no rest. The puppies start wearing layers of heavy boat chains around their necks as collars, at around four or five months old, supposedly to develop the neck muscles. I've seen the guys pick up dogs by their back legs and swing them at each other, to provoke sparring. I've also seen at least one dog who was some kind of huge rottweiler-boxer mix, and must have had the bite pressure of a hyena, disposed of with a bullet through his head and dumped in the local park, because for some reason he refused to be a fighter. Then there was a lot of violent unpleasantry about money spent for his pups (they can get as much as $300 for these mongrel puppies, based on this "scientific" street breeding, and of course it's all throwaway drug money) because the kid who owned him bragged about him and lots of other guys bred their females to him, trying to get fighters. It's a revolting culture of cheating and lying and cruelty, and short, ugly, violent, disposable lives of the animals.
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 29-Aug-2006, 06:04 PM
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I can't stand the whole "Fighting Dog" thing. A bunch of punks over-compensating for "something"! wink.gif With the number of dogs that I have, I occasionaly have fights, especially if someone gets loose, chained dogs HATE a loose dog! But these are just skirmishes compared to what these Pinheads stage! Makes me want to toss them in the pit with a couple of their dogs!
We went to a weight pull (more on that in a bit.) with our Hybrids once. While we warming the boys up before the pull, there was a young kid with a pretty beefy Pit Bull on a chain bigger than I tie my dogs out on, for a leash. I heard him telling bystanders that "When these dogs bite, they don't let go!" After hearing this about 4 or 5 times, I looked at him with a BIG smile biggrin.gif and told him "If he grabs one of these Mals or Hybrids, you better hope it's a good one, cause they'll EAT him while he's hanging on!" When I looked up from rolling a smoke, he was gone. Didn't see him again. I've pulled against Pit Bulls and met some fine dogs with resposible owners, but jerks like that we can ALL do without!

Weight pulling is a sport open to any breed, but most pullers will tell you that some breeds like Shepards, and of course Dachshunds shouldn't pull because of a tendancy for back problems. But I have seen Basenjis, Cockers,Standard Poodles and most any other breed of dog at pulls.
The dogs are outfitted with a special harness for pulling loads, called a Freight Harness, and if the breed is short coated like Danes and some others, then extra padding is added so the dog is comforatable pulling the load.
It is broken down by weight class so Cockers don't pull against Danes. Each weight class has a standard starting weight, and at the end of each round a predetermined weight increment is added to the cart or sled.
The dog is led in front of the cart and the tug line is hooked to the ring at the back of the harness.
At this point the handler has 2 options. He/she can remain behind the cart and give the dog commands from there, or he can go down to the line 16 feet away and call the dog.
There are more rules, mostly for the dog's saftey, but to sum it up, the dog that pulls the most wins.
Let me point out that at NO time is the dog forced to pull. A dog is a very smart animal and will not hurt himself trying to pull more than he is capable of. That being said, I have seen dogs pull amazing loads, simply because their owner asked them to! My old dog Kobuk weighed 75 lbs, and pulled over 3500 lbs on a cart.
To learn more, do a search for IWPA the International Weight pull Association.
Also I should add that the IWPA has a random drug testing policy to try and keep doping out of the sport. It IS all about the dogs.


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Swanny 
Posted: 29-Aug-2006, 06:41 PM
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I love weight pulls, and so does Chinook (St B / Alaskan husky mix). Heck of note, the year I got Chinook the Interior Frieght Dog Association kind of went belly up, so he only gets to strut his stuff a couple of times each season.

Carts are used in regions with little snow, but where there is good snow or the ability to make ice sleds are used. Otherwise it's the same game with the same rules.

Dogshirt, I'm impressed. Kobuk must have been one heck of a dog. Do you happen to know what he could pull on ice or snow?

At some pulls in Alaska we have a three dog class. One of the best three dog teams I ever saw was a pair of working malamutes at wheel, and little beady-eyed-lap-weasel pet dog at lead. I'm pretty sure the Mals thought of the pet dog as "bait" because they won the event hands down.

How badly do dogs want to be with their humans? At a weight pull in Nenana, Alaska a lady "drop-chained her dog to the side of her compact truck and headed off for the registration desk. The dog (a St. B mix much much larger than Chinook) decided to follow, and pulled the truck sideways into the street with nothing more than its neck collar and a 12" inch long drop chain.

Weight pulls truly are all about the dogs and their incredible strength, desire and the bond between dog and human.

Here is a photo of a frieght harness, made by Taiga - they make GREAT stuff.

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Dogshirt 
Posted: 29-Aug-2006, 08:26 PM
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"Buk" was my boy! He's been gone for a long tme now, and when he died I put all of his stuff away and haven't had it out since. But it sticks in my mind he pulled 1980 on snow one time. He was one of the few pulling dogs that had worked on a team, so he would even pull a cart to the side to break it free.
We puuled against a Pit Bull once that would slam into the load with a series of lunges, like a piston getting up to speed. Later Diane told me she didn't like to pull against Kobuk because he was intimidating. I told her that Buk didn't have a mean bone in his body. "I know, but Dredd goes through his whole routine to get the cart moving, and when you call Buk, he just puts his head down and walks away with it!" God how I miss that dog!


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 30-Aug-2006, 08:36 PM
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Pulled 1980? You mean, 1,980 pounds? Is that possible on ice (without wheels)? ohmy.gif

Swanny -- this is probably a silly question -- but in the picture you put up of the dog in his Taiga harness -- what is that yellow bar across the back over the tail? Can't the guy hold his tail up, and won't that bother him? sad.gif
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 30-Aug-2006, 10:20 PM
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I pulled out Buk's old stuff and looked through it this afternoon. He pulled 1985 lbs on snow. This was when he was 9 years old. His mom was one of my wolf hybrids and his dad was a VERY large Samoyed, about 90 lbs. Nik (dad) was in the house and jumped through a window to get out and breed Raven. Buk and his litter were born in a den about 3 feet down and 3 back with the entrance INSIDE the doghouse. They were 3 days old when Mt. St. Helens blew in 1980. I was in school in Seattle and my wife had come over for the weekend and could not get back across the Cascades to our home for 3 more days due to the ash and general mess involved with the mountain. Our neighbors had bought dogfood to feed when they found out she was stuck, but we REALLY worried about the pups. As it turned out, they were fine, safe in the den that Raven had dug. Buk lived to see his 13th birthday when he died of cancer.
The yellow bar is called the cross-bar or singletree. It keeps the harness spread to the width of the dog and keeps it from pressing in on the legs when the dog pulls. The tail is usually above the bar, but depends on the level at which the load is at. The back of the harness is adjustable to allow the line of pull to be in line with the dog's shoulders. It really doesn't bother the dog if he can't raise his tail since a dog that is really pulling keeps his tail down, when not pulling the back of the harness can be layed to the side.


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Swanny 
Posted: 31-Aug-2006, 09:46 AM
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Stoirmeil, the current weight pull record in Alaska, on ice in which conditions were truly perfect, was a pair of St. Bernards who tied at 5,220 lb. each. That is just a bit more than 2 1/2 tons. To put it into perspective, the rated capacity of my diesel powered Dodge pickup truck is 3/4 ton and the rated capacity of the largest pickup trucks you see on the road, usually with dual rear wheels, is 1 ton.

"Little" dogs are also incredibly strong. In the 1987 Alaska Fur Rondy (a huge event in Anchorage) a little dog named Frank set a new record in the under 50 lb. class by pulling 1,850 lb. He didn't just disappear from the pulling scene, either. In the 1995 Fur Rondy he pulled more than a ton - 2,450 lb. He was 13 years old at the time.

Dogs frequently pull four to five times more on wheeled carts than they can on snow or ice. Smaller dogs tend to pull more in proportion to their size than do larger breeds and "little" dogs are often featured as the "pound for pound" champions at weight pulling competitions.

The International Weight Pull Association site at http://www.iwpa.net has a lot of good information on the sport.

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DesertRose 
Posted: 31-Aug-2006, 09:18 PM
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hey all. I would like to believe that certain breeds are not bad. That it depends on breeding, enviornment and temperment. You guys have much more experience than I do. I would love to work with dogs as a behaviorist,but I need a lot of study and work to be able to do so. How does one get into such a field to the point where you can teach others? I have the best well behaved Shelties...not bragging, but I have worked very hard to make them so and they have all been rescues! The only thing I cannot work out is when Irish has her major panic attacks during thunder storms and what to truly do for her to make her chill out...cause when she don't...there goes diarrhea on my carpet! unsure.gif

I also feel badly that dogs like pitbulls, Rotties and German Shepherds get such a bad rap, when there are so many little dogs who attack and bite as well. But because they are little, people tend to put up with their behaviour more. when I am at the animal shelter, most of the dogs are large and most likely not adoptable.

Swanny, it is very difficult indeed to be around these dogs, knowing if they don't get a home within a certain time period they will be euthanized. I have a real problem with that, but their waiting list for other dogs is incredible and I guess they feel they have to do what they have to do. Do I agree, No? But I have a very small house and yard and can't take these dogs like I would like to...so what is one to do? I just wish there was better hope!





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Swanny 
Posted: 31-Aug-2006, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE
I would love to work with dogs as a behaviorist,but I need a lot of study and work to be able to do so. How does one get into such a field to the point where you can teach others?


There are several Universities, most with veterinary science programs, that offer degree programs in Animal behavior. My friend Janece Rollet did most of her coursework through Cornell and U-Penn, as well as a truly vast number of seminars with a wide variety of instructors. You can see a list of requirements for certification by the Association of Companion Animal Behavior Counselors at
http://animalbehaviorcounselors.org/certif...ionlevels.shtml

QUOTE
so what is one to do? I just wish there was better hope!


I think one of the most important things is to recognize that we are not responsible for the irresponsible decisions of others. It isn't our fault that other 'pet' owners are poor decision makers.

We can take responsibility for properly managing and stewarding our own animals, encourage others to do the same and recognize those things that we CAN do - and then make it so. It is truly the wise person who knows his or her limitations, and is willing to work right up to the edge of those limits.

Swanny
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DesertRose 
Posted: 31-Aug-2006, 10:19 PM
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many thanks, Swanny! I appreciate it! when I go to the animal shelter, I can't help but feel so very badly for the dogs there. The one that I paid for adoption fee, some nutball threw her out of the back of a pickup truck. Somebody just happened to see it. They want volunteers like us to come brush, give social help and walk them. but when 3-6 months comes along and they need to put the dog down..what the heck do I do then? I have a hard enough time having to put my Shelties down when they are terribly ill. I grieve for months! So I decided that I would only get involved in the fundraisers. If I go down to the shelter, I will want to adopt every dog there and I just cannot do that. Am I terrible?
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 31-Aug-2006, 10:35 PM
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No, lass, you're not terrible. You are doing what you know you are capable of, just as Swanny said. It's very hard to get attached to an animal only to see it put down. You are better off if you don't see them. Just keep doing what you ARE doing and know that it DOES make a difference! thumbs_up.gif


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Swanny 
Posted: 01-Sep-2006, 01:51 AM
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Terrible??? Don't even think such a thing for if you do I must classify myself as terrible as well. I usually try to avoid the shelter unless I am pretty certain there is a dog there I want to consider adopting. I'm way too soft hearted to be able to work in the shelter.

Fundraising is crucial work, and it takes a real knack to keep the money flowing. There isn't a properly funded shelter or rescue group anywhere that I know of. The folks who keep the funds coming do just as much to save dogs as those who are "hands on".

Swanny
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DesertRose 
Posted: 05-Sep-2006, 02:57 AM
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Many thanks, Swanny and Dogshirt. Gosh! It is really tough, isn't it?!

Thanks for all the info concerning the dog behaviorists. I am constantly amazed how poorly qualified our veterinarians are in the field of behavior study. Just my opinion.
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DesertRose 
Posted: 26-Sep-2006, 09:32 PM
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I was nosing around on the internet this weekend and found this link to a site an hour from me who believes in no euthanization at all if they are adoptable! I told them about the dog, Maggie, and her history and temperment and such. They were very touched by the story and going to see if they can make room for Maggie and make sure she is not euthanized, but adopted to a good home. I just feel in my heart this dog (Border collie/lab) deserves a second chance and seeing that my hubby is not willing, I had to find another source. I will most likely have to pay to have her spayed and all her shots to take her to this new place. Anyway, they are in conference about it right now and God willing all will work out for Maggie! So, my attitude is "one dog at a time!" Wish I could save them all, but I just can't. sad.gif

Well just wanted to share.
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