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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 12:08 PM
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QUOTE (Aaediwen @ 09-Jun-2006, 06:28 PM)
And you mean what by this?

A. you can't get apple b@stards

If you new anything about ulster, irish history or politics, you would understand this joke .
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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 12:11 PM
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That's what i love about the irish, it has a great sense of wit and humour.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 02:48 PM
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teashoci's references to apples and oranges refer to the Orange Order. A protestant group founded in 1795 in the County of Armagh, know for its apple orchards. Protestants were known for their loyalty to the English king, William III or William of Orange. Distilling the story down further, it referes to a point in time of Irish history and a specific battle known as "The Battle of the Diamond" that had occurred between British loyalists and Catholics in Ireland. The Orange Order, more accurately, the Loyal Orange Institution of Ireland was created because of this battle.

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The Battle of the Diamond

21st September 1795

Tucked away in the peaceful townland of Grange O'Neiland is the historical 'Diamond'.

For a number of years leading up to 1795 there was open hostility on the part of the Roman Catholics or Defenders towards their Protestant neighbours.

This came to a head in the summer of 1795 when Protestant Orange Boys (a club started in Tyrone in 1792 by James Wilson - a near relative of Daniel Winter) heard of the Defenders plan to burn all the Protestant homes in the Richhill, Kilmore and Loughgall districts. The Protestants prepared themselves for action and they congregated from various quarters to a position at the Diamond.

The early hours of 21st September 1795 was the climax of a 3 day struggle from opposite hills overlooking the Diamond Crossroads. The Defenders on Faughart Hill (Tullymore). The Orange Boys and their allies on the Diamond Hill (Grangemore).

A farmer named Daniel Winter and his sons owned the field of action between the two hills, the ancestral home in the farmyard and the property at the Diamond Crossroads.

During the battle, the property at the crossroads was burned and became uninhabitable. Daniel Winter and his sons defended their property as long as possible, having to retreat to the Diamond Hill when the thatch was fired.

Tradition passed down the Winter family line from Daniel c 1730, one of the founding fathers of the Orange Society, that the first embyonic meeting of The Orange Society as we know it took place in the ancestral home in the farmyard 200 yards from the Diamond Crossroads.

Following the battle, the main leaders including James Wilson, Daniel Winter and James Sloan needed to get away from the throng to plan and think. They needed a representative readily available to act for the whole body. James Sloan was chosen as Secretary. He was an educated man, a farmer schoolmaster, who owned an inn on the main street in Loughgall.

Discussion took place to outine the new organisation and it was decided to hold further discussions later in the house of James Sloan.


Based on this, "apples" are a reference to the Catholics and "oranges' are a reference to the Protestants. There are further indications that, currently, the concept has evolved into liberal vs. conservative argument.

The strife created because of this religious violence has no place here and is not humorous.


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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 03:14 PM
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1. the battle between orange and catholics was not called the battle of the diamond it was called the battle of the boyne.

2. i hope you know catholics are not refered to as apples lmao, that was just part of my joke.
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teashoci 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 03:20 PM
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I would not refer to the politics struggle of ireland as liberal vs conservative.

ireland has always been and always maintain deep rooted marxist values and attributes toward a socialist community.
ireland is and always has been a socialist nation built and faught for by the working class ( i would seriously recommend any books on james connelly for a perspective into political issues in ireland).

loyalist political parties such as the democratic unionist party has always been staunchly nationalistic , and right wing (like the mainland tory party).

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McKenna 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 06:56 PM
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Uh oho Coastman! We have an Orangeman in our midst! wink.gif


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McKenna 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 07:00 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDarkFyre @ 09-Jun-2006, 06:31 PM)
My favorite memory of home was spending the Winter Solstice on Tara.

I arrived there at ten in the morning, after a half hour hike from the bus stop. Saw the ravens of the Morrigan flying next to me along the road. Didnae' even realize that I was on Tara until I was near the top, thinking that I'd see her off to the side somewhere. Tend to forget how huge she is. Stopped in at the gift shop and cafe there, decided to go ahead and treat myself to a solstice meal. Ordered a chicken melt sandwich, a carafe of coffee, and a double chocolate brownie with REAL fresh cream for dessert. The place was beautiful, the meal heavenly. I finished around noon, got up to go pay, and was told that it was on the house, in honor of the Solstice. A local told me a few moments later of where I could find the Well of the Sacred Cow. I found the well, with the cows watching over it. I prayed, yelled out so the Fae could hear me, and found my way past the fences onto Tara's summit.

I walked through the Stones in the cemetary, walked around the Mound of the Hostages, stood in awe before the "Lia Fail" several times during the day. There was fog and clouds constantly around the top of Tara, and crows and ravens flew in continually all day. It felt separated from the world and like home. I talked with plenty of people who came and went there. I even found out where the faerie tree was and left a gift. I traipsed the Banquet Hall, walked through the Rath of the Synods, strolled by Grainne's Enclosure, hid among the Sloping Trenches, talked with the trees, laughed with the sheep(and there were a lot of them), and enjoyed my visit home.

My whole intent was to wait for the evening solstice gathering, since I had missed the morning one. I saw glimses of the Otherworld that will remain in my memory. but I wove magick anyway, to give a gift to Tara for the experience given. Night came, with fog and mist still around, and most people went home. For a time after it got dark, I was the only one alone on Tara, till first one man, and then another, came to where I stood by the Lia. Like me, they were there for the evening service.

We stood, sat, talked and walked around the Lia for the next two to three hours. the stars appeared above and disappeared in the mist several times, and the mist, when it came in, always smelled like oranges and cinnamon, and maybe a few berries here and there. Which we thought was strange for it being winter of '05. Just as it turned 8, a peculiar couple came along from out of the mist and talked with us awhile, wove some magick of their own, and talked some more. I had seen them earlier in the day. They told us something profound: "Tara is for everyone. after a little while, they went back the way they came, and disappeared.

About a quarter hour later, the soltice group came for the evening service. We greeted them at the gate, the three of us, and participated in their opening service,... but we didn't stay. We agreed that whatever we were meant to do, whatever it was, we did it long before the group came. One of the guys gave me and the other a ride to the bus stop in Navan, bade us farewell, and drove off. We then caught the bus back to Dublin, said our farewells, and went our seperate ways into the city centre.

I call them my brothers to this day, even though I may never see them again.

What a great story! I was just on the hill of Tara in Oct 2005--I didn't know there was a sacred well! Your description of the evening service is incredible.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 13-Jun-2006, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (teashoci @ 13-Jun-2006, 01:20 PM)
I would not refer to the politics struggle of ireland as liberal vs conservative.

ireland has always been and always maintain deep rooted marxist values and attributes toward a socialist community.
ireland is and always has been a socialist nation built and faught for by the working class ( i would seriously recommend any books on james connelly for a perspective into political issues in ireland).

loyalist political parties such as the democratic unionist party has always been staunchly nationalistic , and right wing (like the mainland tory party).

Regardless, what does a political discussion have to do with a recent visit to Ireland and the memories of that visit?

Respectfullly, for a political discussion, feel free to start another topic and leave this one alone. If you need in starting another topic just let me or any other guide know and we'll help get you started.
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briantheflute 
Posted: 14-Jun-2006, 01:47 AM
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Hi everyone!

I was reading this very lovely thread and then came across the fruit joke. I'm saddened by this, as the way forward in that part of Ireland is literally to be going forward, and not dwelling on the wrongs from both sides of the argument.

I have some wonderful friends on both sides of the "divide": I also have some strong political views but I wouldn't dream of espousing them in a non-political thread.

If this is the wrong space to make this comment then forgive me. I would just hope that what I'm trying to say is coming over as temperance, and goodwill.

Love and peace, Brian


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teashoci 
Posted: 14-Jun-2006, 05:04 PM
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who here is an orangeman ?
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McKenna 
Posted: 14-Jun-2006, 10:46 PM
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QUOTE (teashoci @ 14-Jun-2006, 05:04 PM)
who here is an orangeman ?

Hi I was just *lovingly* teasing Coastman, as there is the association of Northern Irish with the English/Protestant Orange. Just an old historical reference. If I had a nickle for every time my dad goes off about "orangemen..."

Ever heard that old song "My father he was orange and my mother she was green?" ;-)
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teashoci 
Posted: 15-Jun-2006, 06:12 PM
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does yourdad hate orange b@stards aswell as me, ooofff i know lots of songs about them.

listen to dominic behans "rebellion" when you get a good drink in you.
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teashoci 
Posted: 15-Jun-2006, 06:20 PM
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i live in glasgow and as a matter of fact, i awoke last saturday with a vicious hangover and the annual orange walk were playing their damn flutes about 1/3 mile away from my house.

a republican march is taking place next week at queens park and i know wherever the orange lodge or the tshcuigh republican youth play there will be trouble to follow, so ill be watching that on my friends balcony with a few drinks in my hand (which makes good use of sunday, sundays being the most useless under used days of the year).
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coastman 
Posted: 16-Jun-2006, 01:42 PM
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Yes, we do thumbs_up.gif
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McKenna 
Posted: 16-Jun-2006, 04:02 PM
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QUOTE (teashoci @ 15-Jun-2006, 06:12 PM)
does yourdad hate orange b@stards aswell as me, ooofff i know lots of songs about them.

listen to dominic behans "rebellion" when you get a good drink in you.

He likes to make jokes about it, but no of course not. :-)
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