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> Loss Of Faith, loss of love?
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 11:45 AM
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Here is a problem I haven't personally seen before, and I'm interested in what anyone of any religious or philosophical conviction has to say about it. I read about this case -- it's a potentially major counselling problem that I would take quite seriously.

A woman who suffered a great many losses as a result of Hurricane Katrina (but it could have been any major life-shaking event), and who was a person of faith, has lost her faith and become very depressed. (She is being treated for the depression per se.) Her partner, also a committed person of the same faith, has tried to be understanding, but he is becoming alienated from her, especially since she will no longer pray with him or go to services, and has recently told her that he feels he is going to have to leave her, because he feels strongly that his life partner must be committed as he is. In this case they are Christians, engaged but not married, no children, and it's an issue of being "unequally yoked" (II Corinthians 6:14). But I can see this happening to couples of almost any faith.

What would you tell her? or him?
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crazykiltedcelt 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 12:43 PM
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A problem that is close to home , we all go throuth times that test our faith. Some rebound quickly other stuggle with the stiref. In my life my own family we are at difftent levels of faith as we meet the chanllage of life. I found that the best way to deal with this is to do as I learn from my father, just love them and let them know you do. As Christ loves us so we must love one another. This is not easy at all,but I pray for my family and ask to understand where they are at and for streaght ,and understanding to help them. Know they must come back to Christ theirselfs: No man can be force to heaven. It's hard to do but it is the only way I know to aid them in this quest. By streagthing mysefl I can help lift them up, I can't help if I'm lower its easier to help up that to push. Trust in the Lord and they will find the way back .


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Elspeth 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 02:44 PM
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Time, time, time..... Take a hiatus from the relationship, but don't call it quits. Allow time for things to settle, become clearer. Having been somewhat in her shoes, in the midst of angst, it's hard to know what you think, what you believe in. No decisions should be made in that space. It is a time of questioning and questing. IF he really loves her, and believes God is directing their lives, then he will give her time and pray for God's will to be shown. When someone has lost much, even their faith, the last thing they need is someone basically saying straighten up or I'm leaving too. There is time enough when she is in a more stable place to figure out if they are spiritually compatible. Then, they can decide if they can be yoked. It sounds like now she needs some kind of stablilty, someone or something to be able to believe in. He doesn't sound like he's filling that role and I have to wonder why he isn't.
Is his faith based upon having someone to pray with and go to services with? If so, that sounds like his faith is rather shallow. And it sounds VERY controlling. Why must his life's partner's faith measure up to his standards?

Tell him to read 1Corinthinas 13 -
If I speak in the tongues of men and angels,
but have not love,
I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol.

And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing.

And if I dole out all my goods, and
if I deliver my body that I may boast
but have not love, nothing I am profited.

Love is long suffering,
love is kind,
it is not jealous,
love does not boast,
it is not inflated.

It is not discourteous,
it is not selfish,
it is not irritable,
it does not enumerate the evil.
It does not rejoice over the wrong, but rejoices in the truth


It covers all things,
it has faith for all things,
it hopes in all things,
it endures in all things.


Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things. Love doesn't have to measure up to his standards. I'm sensing a real lack of true compassion and committment on his part.



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ShadowDarkFyre 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 04:31 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ 02-Jun-2006, 08:44 PM)
Time, time, time..... Take a hiatus from the relationship, but don't call it quits. Allow time for things to settle, become clearer. Having been somewhat in her shoes, in the midst of angst, it's hard to know what you think, what you believe in. No decisions should be made in that space. It is a time of questioning and questing. IF he really loves her, and believes God is directing their lives, then he will give her time and pray for God's will to be shown. When someone has lost much, even their faith, the last thing they need is someone basically saying straighten up or I'm leaving too. There is time enough when she is in a more stable place to figure out if they are spiritually compatible. Then, they can decide if they can be yoked. It sounds like now she needs some kind of stablilty, someone or something to be able to believe in. He doesn't sound like he's filling that role and I have to wonder why he isn't.
Is his faith based upon having someone to pray with and go to services with? If so, that sounds like his faith is rather shallow. And it sounds VERY controlling. Why must his life's partner's faith measure up to his standards?

Tell him to read 1Corinthinas 13 -
If I speak in the tongues of men and angels,
but have not love,
I have become sounding brass or a tinkling symbol.

And if I have prophecy and know all mysteries and all knowledge,
and if I have all faith so as to remove mountains,
but have not love, I am nothing.

And if I dole out all my goods, and
if I deliver my body that I may boast
but have not love, nothing I am profited.

Love is long suffering,
love is kind,
it is not jealous,
love does not boast,
it is not inflated.

It is not discourteous,
it is not selfish,
it is not irritable,
it does not enumerate the evil.
It does not rejoice over the wrong, but rejoices in the truth


It covers all things,
it has faith for all things,
it hopes in all things,
it endures in all things.


Love bears all things, believes all things, hopes all things. Love doesn't have to measure up to his standards. I'm sensing a real lack of true compassion and committment on his part.

I agree. Regardless of faith, it's the love for the partner that should be enough to keep them together. His faith doesnae' depend on her participation. It could be that the Eternal has her on a path he doesnae' comprehend. As we all have our personal conceits where our faiths are concerned, it's a tough thing to fight ourselves off.

I've been in relationships with others whose beliefs or paths didnae' follow mine, and still I loved them. My faith didnae' need their belief to be strong. So I'd have to agree that hsi faith seems somewhat shallow.

It's not her faith that needs to be rededicated, in this case. But his. And not just in God,... but in his love for his partner.




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Shadows 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 05:14 PM
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After most major catastrophy's there is often the question asked why did the creator ( if one exists ) allow this to happen to "good" folk.

One's faith can be shattered, but this is not a time for those who love this person to turn their backs on them because they nolonger believe as they do...

I am a pagan and my wife of 32 years is a christian, we have had our differences, but we believe in each other, that is where the faith must lay if a relationship is to continue, not in one's vision of a diety or belief system.

I say that he needs to look close at why he has lost faith in his partner, not why she does not pray with him anymore... I feel he needs to re-evaluate himself and not judge her.


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IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!


One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS


Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 06:55 PM
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The dynamics of this relationship are complex. But to put it simplistic terms, he needs to cool his jets.

She, as an individual, has been hurt. This injury (depression) has caused her to question herself, her place in the universe, and the universe in general. Her well-being is overshadowed by the heightened sensitivity of her beliefs. All wounds take time to heal. She needs to work on her health and he needs to support that effort. Decision making at this time is not appropriate. The focus needs to be on her recovery.

QUOTE
Ecclesiastes 4:

1 For everything there is a season, and a time for every purpose under heaven:

2 a time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;

3 a time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;

4 a time to weep, and a time to laugh; a time to mourn, and a time to dance;

5 a time to cast away stones, and a time to gather stones together; a time to embrace, and a time to refrain from embracing;

6 a time to seek, and a time to lose; a time to keep, and a time to cast away;

7 a time to tear, and a time to sew; a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;

8 a time to love, and a time to hate; a time for war, and a time for peace.


A committed couple about to get married needs to look at the situation as if they were married. It's all part of the commitment to each other that they have already expressed to each other. With 30 years myself of married life, there is always a right and wrong time for everything. It would be best for him to look at the situation as a test of his commitment to her, maybe God is telling him that he is not worthy of her not the other way around. As part of the traditional wedding ceremony, the wedding vow is a sacred oath to each other in the eyes of God. In continuing this line of thinking of treating this as part of being married, what if the situation was reversed? Would he look to her for his strength to go on or would he prefer that she cut and run as he is proposing to do to her?

QUOTE
Ecclesiastes 3

9 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their labor.

10 For if they fall, the one will lift up his fellow; but woe to him that is alone when he falleth, and hath not another to lift him up.

11 Again, if two lie together, then they have warmth; but how can one be warm 'alone'?

12 And if a man prevail against him that is alone, two shall withstand him; and a threefold cord is not quickly broken.


Christianity is not so rigid as what he thinks that it is. If that is the case, Christ died for nothing. No one would be able to measure up to the requirements for salvation. I have found that this all-or-nothing attitude is typical of new christians. They are so enamored of the concept of being saved that they have lost sight of what and why of the important parts of the christian experience. Christ is the example. He gave his life for everyone so that everyone has a chance to enter the kingdom of God. He forgave everyone and all he asked in return is to believe in him. If Christ had done that, who knows the outcome? How many times did God forgive the Isrealites? She needs him to stand by her, to help her find the way out of the darkness that is depression.

QUOTE
Mark 12

41 Jesus sat down opposite the treasury, and saw how the multitude cast money into the treasury. Many who were rich cast in much.

42 A poor widow came, and she cast in two small brass coins, which equal a quadrans coin.

43 He called his disciples to himself, and said to them, "Most certainly I tell you, this poor widow gave more than all those who are giving into the treasury,

44 for they all gave out of their abundance, but she, out of her poverty, gave all that she had to live on."


In this situation, you would expect compassion by helping another christian that has lost their way, especially one that you plan to live with for the rest of your life. His actions speak louder than words at this point. He just may not be worthy or her.

Just my two cents worth.


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 02-Jun-2006, 11:34 PM
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I think it's very natural to be indignant at the young man for abandoning the lady emotionally when she needs him. I confess I feel that way myself. It's also an awfully good observation that if God would not abandon her when she's lost and struggling, who is he to do so for such a reason?

But I wonder if there isn't something else behind it, or mixed in with it, that would indicate that he too needs a little understanding. If someone were working with the two of them, togther or separately, that person would have to suspend that indignation and explore the guy's feelings with him. I'm not sure -- as I said, I only read about this case, and I thought it was striking -- but I wonder if he isn't partly afraid of the unexpected, maybe assuming that he might not have even considered courting a woman not of his convictions in the first place. One wouldn't know without talking to him, of course. Or he's not as solid as he thinks he is, and down deep, her condition scares the bejeepers out of him as something that could happen to him too. Especially because it didn't just go away quickly, and he sees she is suffering.

This ties in deeper with another idea I've been looking at lately, where commitment to a faith (or some other facet of identity, perhaps a family profession or educational path) is tied early in life to one's sense of self, and there is never any exploration away from it on the part of the young person, or any sense of need for exploration. This is called "foreclosure of identity", and it's not necessarily a bad thing, really it can be a very solid and stabilizing thing, unless or until some kind of conflict like this problem comes up. Then the person in conflict really has no idea what to do or how to handle it, except to get behind precepts and the prescribed rules of conduct. The -- how can I put it? -- coping tolerance, maybe, of someone who never made a practice of even looking at alternatives would be narrow, and not flexible. It could be pretty disruptive for the guy in his sense of self, and he's had no practice.

So I'm wondering what one might ask this man, in addition to all the things we'd like to tell him about how he's behaving. sad.gif Possibly get him separately (not in front of her) to think through a "worst-case scenario" if she never regains the level of faith he thinks is necessary, and just let him roll about all the disastrous results he imagines would come from it if he were to stay with her anyway, so it's out on the table to examine (or challenge gently, once you let him know you DO take him seriously), piece by piece.
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Elspeth 
Posted: 03-Jun-2006, 10:42 AM
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Of course the young man needs to be considered. He's had a shock as well. What he thought was to be his life has been upset. Now he has to re-evaluate his belief system as well. SOmething he may now want to do, but is forced to by the upheaval in his fiances life. And he may greatly resent that. He can choose not to do that and cut and run, citing scriptual reasons to salve his conscious, or he can delve deep and enter the painful path of self-discovery. He does need to know what he believes and why. He needs to understand why it is imperitive to him his wife be of a certian mind. Is it because that is what he truly believes is the only Chrsitain path? So many questions he needs to answer. AND that is frightening. Many people walk away instead of having to do it.

But again, it seems like the situation needs more than anything time. You can't shovel out a path when the snow is still falling
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stevenpd 
Posted: 03-Jun-2006, 10:57 AM
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I have found, with my limited experience of psycology, that nothing is the same as it appears. Relationship dynamics are very complex and difficult to understand. In this forum, a simplistic response is all that is available. But the general gist of things is the direction to go into.

Without some personal interaction with both it is impossible to definitively ascertain what the actual motivations, concerns, fears, etc. or the dynamics are. Counseling should not only be in a one-on-one session for both but also as a couple. Only then, could one determine precisely what is occurring.

Overlay the situation with Christian concepts and you would have a more definitive direction. That is not to say that Christian concepts would be a short-cut to a solution, but more as an additional source of input for the counseling.
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Shadows 
Posted: 03-Jun-2006, 11:27 AM
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Christianity does not always hold all the answers. I have seen this belief system destroy as much as it has helped. It is one and only one belief system, yet it has it's basis in more ancient systems.

To think that quoting scriptures and pointing fingers will solve a problem like this is absurd.

The desire and willingness to want this relationship to continue is a must on both parts, if that does not exist then there is no hope.

Closed minds do not make for good relationships.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 03-Jun-2006, 12:49 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 03-Jun-2006, 09:27 AM)
Christianity does not always hold all the answers. I have seen this belief system destroy as much as it has helped. It is one and only one belief system, yet it has it's basis in more ancient systems.

To think that quoting scriptures and pointing fingers will solve a problem like this is absurd.

The desire and willingness to want this relationship to continue is a must on both parts, if that does not exist then there is no hope.

Closed minds do not make for good relationships.

Agreed, but the Christian aspect of the situation was presented as part of the issue. And since both individuals profess to be Christian, then the situation must be dealt with in that light. This does not preclude that the answer will only come from Christian beliefs. I would think that it would play a very important role in understanding the situation though.

Rigid thinking serves no one but the indiviual. I order to promote flexible thinking sometimes it is necessary to use the ammunition provided by the individual, especially if they believe so rigidly. During the 70's with religious cults prevalent, the deprogrammers used this technique well. Obessesive behaviors are difficult to corrrect if at all.
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Shadows 
Posted: 04-Jun-2006, 07:55 AM
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You are making the asumption that both still hold their christian beliefs, that seems to be the trouble here, one no longer does and the other is holding that against them.

A different solution needs to be applied here... and that is the belief in each other...

If a relationship is based on religious beliefs it will never stand the test of time. To many times a persons beliefs change over their life time and to many times the rigid thinking by one in the relationship causes that relationship to fail.

In the marrage vows it is for better or worse, sickness and in health, richer or poorer....

Todays society makes it to easy to break that contract.
Yes I know these 2 are not yet married ( praise the creator ) and it might be a good thing.

One must review what one is looking for in a relationship and absolute compatability in all things will never exist.

Support and understanding of one's mate in all matters is what makes a relationship grow and thrive.

If one consept is going to throw things into a tailspin then that relationship is doomed.

One item from the original post seems to be set aside...

The woman is suffering depression due to all this, she is the one who needs the love and understanding at the moment not the male!
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stevenpd 
Posted: 04-Jun-2006, 01:24 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 04-Jun-2006, 05:55 AM)
You are making the asumption that both still hold their christian beliefs, that seems to be the trouble here, one no longer does and the other is holding that against them.

A different solution needs to be applied here... and that is the belief in each other...

If a relationship is based on religious beliefs it will never stand the test of time. To many times a persons beliefs change over their life time and to many times the rigid thinking by one in the relationship causes that relationship to fail.

In the marrage vows it is for better or worse, sickness and in health, richer or poorer....

Todays society makes it to easy to break that contract.
Yes I know these 2 are not yet married ( praise the creator ) and it might be a good thing.

One must review what one is looking for in a relationship and absolute compatability in all things will never exist.

Support and understanding of one's mate in all matters is what makes a relationship grow and thrive.

If one consept is going to throw things into a tailspin then that relationship is doomed.

One item from the original post seems to be set aside...

The woman is suffering depression due to all this, she is the one who needs the love and understanding at the moment not the male!

I think the place to start to untie this gordian knot is from a place of commonality. That commonality began with the Christian beliefs and was upset by the depression. As I have said before the answer may not be with Christian beliefs but may come from some where else. Wherever that may be.

A solution can not be applied, the presupposes a determined outcome. Since we must let these two individuals set their own course for healing with the solution being determined by mutual acceptance of both individuals. It would be necessary for a third party to guide them to their solution. With all counseling of this type you must start somewhere and now we arrive back to the commonality of of both parties as a starting point without a predetermined outcome.

Relationships based on commonalities do stand the test of time. On this point I am going to have to disagree with you. Commonalities may be religious, cultural, or simply historical in nature or in any combination. It is up to the individual's capacity to accept or reject another's changes in beliefs during a relationship. The path of life is often a study in changes in the human psyche. Times change and everyone must adapt to the environment or perish. This flexibility ultimately belongs to the individual and the relationship provides something that they, personally, are searching for in a relationship.

Every relationship must contend with outside influences as part of their environment. Outside influences such as war and natural disasters are on a macro level while family and community influences are on a micro level. Sometime the confluence of all these become just too much to comprehend and adjust to, such as the case that we are discussing. Coping with with all internal (one on one relationship) and external (family, community, natural disaster, war, etc) can be troubling and requires flexibility in thinking and adaptation to the current situation. Rigidity in thinking is counterproductive to a relationship, once again, as in this case. His rigid thinking, although based in his perception, of his Christian values prevents him from even acknowledging that she has a problem. He is basically saying,"You no longer believe the way that I do, so therefore, you are no longer worthy of my attention." This is in spite of the apparent fact of marriage.

Although they are not married, that fact alone puts a different spin on things and I will agree with you that it's better to find this out now than later. His lack of compassion and support of her during her troubling times speaks to his rigid thinking. For him to use his Christian beliefs as the reason for leaving her is against Christian principals. Hence, the indignation towards the young man. Denigration of societal morays allows the young man to pick and choose what he wants to believe in.

This discussion has focused on the young man more so than the young lady. I believe this is due to his insensitivity to the situation. Everyone thinks that she is the victim here and discounts her depression. I feel that this due to the general acceptance of "a great many losses as a result of Hurricane Katrina" being an occurrence completely out of the realm of being an intolerable situation that no one can relate to. It is a given that she needs help and in whatever form.


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stevenpd 
Posted: 04-Jun-2006, 02:06 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 02-Jun-2006, 09:34 PM)
I think it's very natural to be indignant at the young man for abandoning the lady emotionally when she needs him. I confess I feel that way myself. It's also an awfully good observation that if God would not abandon her when she's lost and struggling, who is he to do so for such a reason?

But I wonder if there isn't something else behind it, or mixed in with it, that would indicate that he too needs a little understanding. If someone were working with the two of them, togther or separately, that person would have to suspend that indignation and explore the guy's feelings with him. I'm not sure -- as I said, I only read about this case, and I thought it was striking -- but I wonder if he isn't partly afraid of the unexpected, maybe assuming that he might not have even considered courting a woman not of his convictions in the first place. One wouldn't know without talking to him, of course. Or he's not as solid as he thinks he is, and down deep, her condition scares the bejeepers out of him as something that could happen to him too. Especially because it didn't just go away quickly, and he sees she is suffering.

This ties in deeper with another idea I've been looking at lately, where commitment to a faith (or some other facet of identity, perhaps a family profession or educational path) is tied early in life to one's sense of self, and there is never any exploration away from it on the part of the young person, or any sense of need for exploration. This is called "foreclosure of identity", and it's not necessarily a bad thing, really it can be a very solid and stabilizing thing, unless or until some kind of conflict like this problem comes up. Then the person in conflict really has no idea what to do or how to handle it, except to get behind precepts and the prescribed rules of conduct. The -- how can I put it? -- coping tolerance, maybe, of someone who never made a practice of even looking at alternatives would be narrow, and not flexible. It could be pretty disruptive for the guy in his sense of self, and he's had no practice.

So I'm wondering what one might ask this man, in addition to all the things we'd like to tell him about how he's behaving. sad.gif Possibly get him separately (not in front of her) to think through a "worst-case scenario" if she never regains the level of faith he thinks is necessary, and just let him roll about all the disastrous results he imagines would come from it if he were to stay with her anyway, so it's out on the table to examine (or challenge gently, once you let him know you DO take him seriously), piece by piece.

For a course of counseling I would suggest the first few sessions be with them individually at first. Exploring their life histories. It may turn out that she is a life long Catholic (or any other Christian church) and he, a new-born Christian. Although the beliefs are very similar their history is not. Their commonality is not so similar and therfore provides a few degrees of separation that makes them different and yet similar in nature.

Once histories are understood, she needs to focus on depression issues and he on flexible thinking and the desire (?) to adapt. Using this a background, joint couseling with both discussing issues of compatablity, eventualy leading to marriage counseling, if it can go that far.

It could be that their identities have not been set in stone and there can be some accommodation towards each other to developing a commonality to share. But identity development and establishment, I would think, develops early in life. This development would be reinforced in developing that identity to which everyone would cling. Human beings cling to the known and have a tendency to shun the unknown. In order to accept the unknown an individual would need to be very established in their owwn personal identity before they would even consider accepting an unknown. Or to define this conserdation of an unknown another way, a "leap of faith."
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Elspeth 
Posted: 06-Jun-2006, 09:21 AM
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This does bring up the whole interesting process of choosing our life mates. In my older years I have come to realize (and resent) we are 'made' to make the most important decisions of our life when we have the least experience to do so. 'made' because I can't think of a word that better conveys the thought. Most life shaping decisions are made before 25 or 30. College, career, LIFE MATE, children etc and etc... I myself married when I was in a place least like my real self, kinda an experiemental stage. Hence I denied the real me for years and still have to live with many of the ramifications of choosing someone who doesn't share some of my core values. Yep, I was an idiot. But some of it made sense at the time. In hindsight.... In hindsight, I should have addressed all those niggling things I knew weren't right. These young people have a chance to do so, or walk away and try again.

So, here is this young man and woman. She's trying to cope with the devastation of loss. And that doens't have to have cataclysmic origins. I recently went through much the same thing faced only with the 'quiet desperations'.

He is forging through life in the way he feels he is 'expected' to go. Where those expectations came from definately need to be explored. Family? Church? Society? His own ideals? His intrepretation of the Bible? Others intrepretation of the Bible? This is what he needs to find out. Why he belives what he does? Where does it come from? And then... he has to decide if he still clings to these beliefs or if they were the belief system of others he blindly adopted.

Part of the problem with adopting other's belief systems is we often do not understand them in the whole, only the portions we see. For example, the scripture he quoted. I belive he isn't looking at the entire scripture. As I remember and I am no Bible scholar, but as I remember the passage advises to not yoke yourself with non-believers because it will make your own journey harder. It isn't forbidding it. It really is stating common sense that if you are married to someone who doesn't believe as you do it will make your marriage harder and your belief harder.

In using this scripture as an out, it is saying to me he doe'snt want to have to work that hard. I'm not sure I blame him. To share your life with someone who doesn't share your values is at times horrible. But he should not use the Bible as a scapegoat to get him out of a relationship that will be more struggle and less comfort than he wanted.

When two are yoked and pulling in different directions, you get nowhere. And after 19 year of marriage, we have not made it far for that very reason. This is different than tollerance for another's belief. It is about traversing life's path as a team, yoked together.

So, I empathize with the young man in that he needs to really see if he can be a true and faithful husband to this woman. Because already his belief in her is shaken. Not a good start.

From her standpoint, I'd never be able to trust the guy again. If he turned from me in my time of great need, spouting srcipture at me, how could I ever believe he would be there in the future? Depression is re-occuring. I'd always be afraid to let him know the darkenss was coming back for fear he'd abandon me.

It would take a HUGE committment on his part to overcome this, what I see as a, betrayal. He would have to see her as someone he loved so very much he was willing not only to be yoked with her, but to pull her share of the weight as well as his own in the times she was unable to function. He would have to take on his own Christian faith knowing he would not be able to draw from her in his times of need.

I know I am rambling, but thoughts keep coming... People who cite scripture to advance their own agenda frighten me. And it should frighten her. It is the sign of either an infantile Christian or a manipulative one. If it is only he is still young in faith and he sincerely belived he was being told to cut lose from her, then there is room for learning, understanding and growth. If he used it manipulatively... I'd tell her to 'run away!'. Her mental state doens't need the convolutions of manipulation.
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