Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )



Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Gun Control, who's for it?
Bookmark and Share
flora 
Posted: 30-May-2009, 07:14 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 896
Joined: 18-Jul-2006
ZodiacAsh

Realm: Tangerine, Florida

female





QUOTE
This is strictly regional. State's law, state's call. Cull and secede at will.


Stormeil please explain this statement. It doesn't sound like you. Are you saying that if they make this law they shouldn't be a part of the US?

Flora


--------------------
"Nature always wears the colors of the spirit." -
Ralph Waldo Emerson


Forget not that the earth delights to feel your bare feet and the winds long to play with your hair.
K. Gibran


In every walk with nature one receives far more than he seeks.
John Muir


"Climb the mountains and get their good tidings. Nature's peace will flow into you as sunshine flows into trees. The winds will blow their own freshness into you, and the storms their energy, while cares will drop off like autumn leaves."
John Muir
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 30-May-2009, 08:03 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (flora @ 30-May-2009, 07:14 PM)

Stormeil please explain this statement.  It doesn't sound like you.  Are you saying that if they make this law they shouldn't be a part of the US?

Flora

No, no . . . there has been some chatter lately, and I don't know how serious it is (but actually somebody seems to really mean it) that there is some secessionist group or movement in Texas:

http://www.texassecede.com/faq.htm

It's just a sour attempt at humor on my part -- the idea being that they can take their precious guns and leave for all of me. . . I suppose there are people who would not take it so lightly, so I hope I haven't offended anyone unduly, and if so I apologize for poor taste in jokes.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Patch 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 12:04 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 7,710
Joined: 22-Dec-2002
ZodiacIvy

Realm: America, Mid West

male





Over the last 15 to maybe 20 years there have been at least three groups that felt Texas should leave the union. One of those may be listed in your link. The others listed are so small as to be of no consequence. Two over the years were minority groups that felt Texas should be part of Mexico. They are not listed in the link. None had any real credibility.

The federal govt's rights are specifically spelled out in the Constitution and are few. All others NOT granted the fed. govt belong to the states and are numerous. The fed govt has taken rights that are not afforded it and though this will undoubtedly make some angry, history shows "nearly" all were taken during periods of control by the Democrats.

The economy could be very likely the cause major changes in our country. Russia now predicts our economic distress will cause the country to become 5 separate entities. In crisis and with survival foremost they could be right.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:11 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







Well, this is a tangly one.

The citizen was a law abiding person with a permit to carry and also some deep life-affirming beliefs, and so he was OK, he was great, except he walked into a church in the middle of a service and murdered a doctor in front of the congregation and the doctor's wife, so now the shooter is a bad guy and a nut case, and someone in the church should have been carrying so he could have acted with phenomenal speed and accuracy in the crowded room and taken out the would-be murderer and prevented the tragedy, except the doctor was a late term abortion provider, so the nutcase murderer is also a hero, at one and the same time.

Somehow I think removing the guns from the equation would have simplified this just a little.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
flora 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:19 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 896
Joined: 18-Jul-2006
ZodiacAsh

Realm: Tangerine, Florida

female





His clinic had been bombed and he had been shot previously. He also had made previous complaints to the police which did no good. I don't think removing guns from this particular case would have done much good.

Flora
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:25 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (flora @ 31-May-2009, 05:19 PM)
His clinic had been bombed and he had been shot previously. He also had made previous complaints to the police which did no good. I don't think removing guns from this particular case would have done much good.

Flora

Let me make sure I get this right -- there had been attempts on him already, so the hell with trying to prevent it, it's no use? The previous gun (and the bomb) fall under the items to be removed. There is a possibility that the first shooting, at any rate, was with a legally carried weapon, for those who find the distinction relevant and important.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
flora 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:32 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 896
Joined: 18-Jul-2006
ZodiacAsh

Realm: Tangerine, Florida

female





No, you said if the guns were removed. I think bombs are in a completely different category. People were out to get him no matter the weapon used.

Flora
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Dogshirt 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:34 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline





Lord of the Northern Plains
Group Icon

Group: Founder
Posts: 2,400
Joined: 12-Oct-2003
ZodiacElder

Realm: Washington THE State

male





If this is the case I think it is, he was shot before with a rifle. They do not require a permit to carry as they can not be concealed.


beer_mug.gif


--------------------
Hoka Hey!
The more Liberals I meet, the more I like my dogs!
PMEmail PosterMy Photo Album               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:42 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (flora @ 31-May-2009, 05:32 PM)
No, you said if the guns were removed.  I think bombs are in a completely different category.  People were out to get him no matter the weapon used.

Flora

Well, let me ask you again then, just with regard to the guns, since the bomb is outside lawful consideration in any case -- this is summary and vigilante treatment of a citizen whose actions may be severely objectionable, according to one's belief system, but are lawful. Is it OK that "people" were out to get him?

Dogshirt -- don't shoot me as the messenger or anything, but the point I am trying to make is not a technicality of concealed or not concealed. It is that you can't cleanly separate out good and lawful intentions from nuts and fanatical motives before any firearm, whether or not it requires a permit to be carried legally, is in the hand of someone like this. I don't find it an acceptable risk. In this case, paradoxically, the crime would likely not be carried out by the criminal elements we say we fear and need to protect ourselves from, because a criminal would not stick his neck out for this. This is specifically the crime of a "good" person who thinks he can administer the right, better than the system administers the law.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Patch 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:46 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 7,710
Joined: 22-Dec-2002
ZodiacIvy

Realm: America, Mid West

male





Absolutely not!! That is one person. If he fired multiple shots, (we have no details) it is possible the person could have been saved by another armed individual. Compare one instance to all the killings with guns (the least #) knives and other means including automobiles by persons who are not checked out it at all and it isn't even a drop in the ocean. Look at the number of murders committed by police officers. (Many more than have been committed by CC license holders) The police in your state as many convictions as any state. I do not condone what the individual did but by the same token, The majority of the population (in several un-weighted polls) feel late term abortions are murder in most though maybe not all situations. I personally cannot conceive of a situation where the procedure would be the only option but I would not rule it out. Those who cannot make a decision early in pregnancy probably should not be reproducing. Other abortions, though I would not encourage them, I have said nothing about as it is the law of the land.

This will probably stir things up a bit.

Slàinte,   

 Patch    
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 05:52 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (Patch @ 31-May-2009, 05:46 PM)
Absolutely not!!  That is one person.  If he fired multiple shots, (we have no details) it is possible the person could have been saved by another armed individual.  Compare one instance to all the killings with guns (the least #) knives and other means including automobiles by persons who are not checked out it at all and it isn't even a drop in the ocean.  Look at the number of murders committed by police officers.  (Many more than have been committed by CC license holders)  The police in your state as many convictions as any state.  I do not condone what the individual did but by the same token, The majority of the population (in several un-weighted polls) feel late term abortions are murder in most though maybe not all situations.  I personally cannot conceive of a situation where the procedure would be the only option but I would not rule it out.  Those who cannot make a decision early in pregnancy probably should not be reproducing.  Other abortions, though I would not encourage them, I have said nothing about as it is the law of the land.

This will probably stir things up a bit.

Slàinte, 

Patch

I don't think this has to do with the abortionist's ethical merits or lack of them, or the right or wrongness of the kind of procedures he carried out, or how many people believe the doctor himself was a murderer. It is totally to do with vigilante summary punishment by a private citizen outside the law. You say you don't condone it, but are there any ideas about how to prevent this? Or just "Let 'em take him out. Maybe the poor slob who shot him will get a light sentence." Which is a kind of passive vigilantism in theory.

It's a more urgent issue since it combines two of the worst hot-button issues. Both literally life and death issues really.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
flora 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 06:19 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 896
Joined: 18-Jul-2006
ZodiacAsh

Realm: Tangerine, Florida

female





There are many issues in this one, but I thought the main one was about the right to carry concealed weapons. I have to go back to the fact that someone will illegally have one. If I have taken a course on the proper handling of a gun, the laws and have had a background check that allows me the opportunity to carry, there might come a time when it could help save someone. There is no way to stop crime and yes there will be some that have a permit and use it the wrong way. Criminals might think differently if they knew there might be a dangerous outcome to their actions. Isn't that deterrent worth a chance?

Stoirmeil, I understand your concern about the actions of every individual that carry guns legally or not. I don't see any way to guarantee that no one will make a mistake.

Flora
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Patch 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 06:28 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 7,710
Joined: 22-Dec-2002
ZodiacIvy

Realm: America, Mid West

male





If you think it can be stopped, you are totally wrong. Check places where guns have been outlawed and see what happened. Violent crime goes out of sight. It is committed with guns too as the criminals keep the tools of their trade. The UK and Australia come to mind. Being shot is an occupational hazard of criminals so long as the people are armed. That is a powerful deterrent!

Possibly the good(?) doctor should have been armed himself. With multiple attempts on his life, he was a fool not to be. The man who shot him was obviously trained as he injured no one else.

The one thing this proves beyond any doubt, though they knew his life was threatened, the police either could not or would not protect him. That should encourage more people to arm themselves. My guess is more will.

As I said earlier, more police officers in New York have committed murder than all of those in the US who are licensed to carry.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
PMEmail Poster               
Top
stoirmeil 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 06:30 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 3,581
Joined: 07-Nov-2004
ZodiacBirch

Realm: New York







QUOTE (flora @ 31-May-2009, 06:19 PM)


Stoirmeil, I understand your concern about the actions of every individual that carry guns legally or not.  I don't see anyway to guarantee that no one will make a mistake.

Flora

Well, and I see the strength of your argument too, except I think there are too many possibilities for the presence of firearms to cause harm as balanced against the number of situations they save in the hands of ordinary citizens. And as I've said, this is state by state and case by case. I would never advocate blanket federal statute on it.

As far as "mistakes": we had a bad tangly mistake in my city this past week. Walking distance from my house, actually -- across town in Spanish Harlem on my same avenue level. An off-duty cop spotted someone breaking into his car and even though he was in civilian sport dress, he took out after the robber with his gun drawn. This cop was black. That does play into the proceedings that are shaping up -- because an on-duty (white) cop saw him chasing the robber, misconstrued what was really going on, and took it for an armed robbery with the cop as the robber, and shot him down. Apparently he did not stop when challenged. That is a true mistake, even though it is all tangled with the racial issues, and no one is forgetting it for a second. For better or worse, the police are the ones we delegate as known and expected to be armed.

But this guy who went after the abortionist wasn't making a mistake. He knew exactly what he was doing, including the illegality of it, figured that the ethical and spiritual benefits overrode the law, and intended every inch of it. I haven;t even mentioned that he was endangering a building full of people to carry out his righteous crusade, and didn't seem to care, and I don't buy it that he "must have" been skilled because no one else got hurt. That's luck.
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Patch 
Posted: 31-May-2009, 07:39 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 7,710
Joined: 22-Dec-2002
ZodiacIvy

Realm: America, Mid West

male





QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 31-May-2009, 07:30 PM)


Flora [/QUOTE]
Well, and I see the strength of your argument too, except I think there are too many possibilities for the presence of firearms to cause harm as balanced against the number of situations they save in the hands of ordinary citizens. And as I've said, this is state by state and case by case. I would never advocate blanket federal statute on it.






It is not luck, it is skill. (His state requires training) His act was certainly thought out and premeditated. A church contains a lot of people a the possibility of hitting someone else was quite high. Collateral damage is the foremost consideration when considering deadly force. Some bullets will not stop when striking a human body and they can continue to harm others. They also do not travel in a straight line after striking someone. The caliber and type of bullet prevent this and everyone I know in multiple states considers those factors. In the summer I use the same cartridge that sky marshalls use at a cost of over $7.00 each. (that was several years ago and wholesale) These are not effective in the winter with heavier clothing to penetrate so I use fragmenting bullets then. I am quick and VERY accurate. I practice regularly to stay that way. Errors get you sued and harm innocent people . I wish to avoid both. I would prefer not to have to ever have to "act" but I will protect those with and around me.

Should crime become a serious problem in the next several years do not be surprised to see a federal licence. Our legislators want to keep their jobs and I know for a fact that it has been discussed on both sides of the isle. Job security is why HR 45 is stalled still.

I read about the incident in your city and it was sad. A private citizen would have needed to witness the entire situation to act and the threat of criminal and civil action would have certainly ensured that to be the case. The officer who did the shooting should have some accountability as they are subject to the same laws the rest of us must follow.

Slàinte,    

Patch    


PMEmail Poster               
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 








Celtic RadioTM broadcasts through Live365.com and StreamLicensing.com which are officially licensed under SoundExchange, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC and SOCAN.
©2014 Celtic Radio Network, Highlander Radio, Celtic Moon, Celtic Dance, Ye O' Celtic Pub and Celt-Rock-Radio.
All rights and trademarks reserved. Read our Privacy Policy.
Celtic Graphics ©2014, Cari Buziak


Link to CelticRadio.net!
Link to CelticRadio.net
View Broadcast Status and Statistics!

Best Viewed With IE 8.0 (1680 x 1050 Resolution), Javascript & Cookies Enabled.


[Home] [Top]

Celtic Hearts Gallery | Celtic Mates Dating | My Celtic Friends | Celtic Music Radio | Family Heraldry | Medival Kingdom | Top Celtic Sites | Web Celt Blog | Video Celt