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> Gun Control, who's for it?
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 19-Dec-2006, 03:42 PM
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QUOTE (Antonio @ 18-Dec-2006, 02:45 AM)
Hello everyone, Very compelling subject Gun Control is, it's a nasty beast. We have all heard all the cliche's about gun control!! like guns don't kill people people kill people, gun control is hitting your target at 900 meters. Those statements are true, I don't take gun control lightly, but if I chose to own firearms be it for sport or self preservation that is my right and choice. Not some law maker who can't protect my family!!!, (by the way most of them have concealed weapons permits and carry at all times) and are willing to put stupid gun laws into effect that handcuff the law abiding citizen from protecting himself. In the case of property , if someone is walking out my front door with my tv I'm going to be really ticked off , I would never consider using a firearm in that situation maybe a nice bat! unless of course he had one and was willing to use it! then of course it's not a property issue the it's my life which means my families lives.

I spent most of my life in the Marine Corps and would have to say accidents with firearms do happen but in 24 yrs. I can only remember one, and I don't think it's an accident when your on a live fire line with a loaded weapon and you squeeze a round off!! because you thought you had the weapon on safe. Thats either a stupid or an on purpose take your pick.

I have 2 times in my life had to pull out a firearm in other than work related incidents. Once while my youngest soon and I were fishing and the other time a drug dealer kicked in my back door (he should not use his own drugs) he was about 4 blocks from one of his suppliers yes wrong house wrong neighbor hood, He was armed and so was I. I think he realized that I would have no compunction about saving my own life. So yes in that incident A firearm was used to coerce someone into doing exactly what I wanted which was through the gun down and lay down and wait for the Police. The fishing incident, happened out in the San Joaquin River Delta. We were night fishing from the bank, we had a camp fire going the lantern was hanging on it's stand when a pickup pulled up across the river from us 3 people got out we don't give them much thought there are people fishing both sides on any given night. When one fired, the first shot it hit about 2 ft. to the left of me and about 6 in. to the right of my son then about 5 more shots very fast. I grabbed my rifle and fired one shot at the bed of the pickup the gun fight was over because like most of those people they are pure breed coward and it's no fun when the target shots back. I can only imagine what might have happened had I not been armed. And it had never really occurred to me to take a firearm with me for that reason I always took one because of critters.

Gun control and firearm safety belongs to each of us!! and laws won't make use safe from stupid. The key is "TEACH EACH" safety. If your going to have firearms keep it safe, if you have children lock it up.

Antonio
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Great post Antonio. It seems that those who are against guns have never benn in a situation where they needed one and either did or didn't have gun. thumbs_up.gif


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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 20-Dec-2006, 08:56 AM
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Here's an article from Ohio. They overturned a Governors veto of gun control.

The Wednesday Dispatch article "Local gun laws fall as veto is rejected," on the legislatureís override of Gov. Bob Taftís veto of House Bill 347, makes an excellent case for why we donít simply scrap our representative government and decide all public policy by means of polling. People who have no particular personal stake or interest in an issue are highly manipulable by media sound bites and meaningless emotional arguments.

Pollsters should take the time to ask some serious probing questions, such as, "How likely do you think a guncontrol law is to stop a career criminal whose life revolves around robbery, murder or drug peddling from using a prohibited gun?"

People who never give any deep thought to the issue are likely to answer superficial poll questions out of pure emotion or attitudes they have assimilated by listening to the biased mainstream mediaís constant drumbeat against guns. Any person who gives serious thought to the gun issue would realize that gun laws restrict only lawabiding citizensí access to weapons they could use to protect themselves and their loved ones.

Since men such as Columbus Mayor Michael B. Coleman are assumed to be of above-average intelligence, I can conclude only that their constantly equating gun ownership by their most law-abiding citizens with a threat to public safety is purely political and intellectual dishonesty. The real threat to public safety is not allowing law-abiding people the means to protect themselves. An additional point worth noting is that Peter Brown, assistant director of the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute, has committed a cardinal sin for any pollster, injecting his own apparent political opinions into the results of the poll.

He engaged in a great leap of logic when he said, "There is clear consensus that Ohioans donít want to relax current gun-control laws and donít want to roll back the tougher laws passed by some cities."

That is an incredible conclusion to reach on the basis of 46 percent of respondents in his poll answering that Ohioís laws are about right and indicates Quinnipiacís own bias.

The bottom line is that no gun-control law ever has served to reduce crime, and this should be pointed out to people before they answer poll question on this controversial issue.

MARK WINTERS


Way to go Ohio!!!!!!! biggrin.gif
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maisky 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 07:37 AM
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QUOTE (Nova Scotian @ 20-Dec-2006, 07:56 AM)

The bottom line is that no gun-control law ever has served to reduce crime, and this should be pointed out to people before they answer poll question on this controversial issue.
MARK WINTERS



Not true, crimes involving guns are very rare in the UK, where handguns are not allowed. I dont know if this is the case in Canada, which has similar controls on handguns. The fact is that most "illegal" handguns in the hands of criminals have their source in thefts from the homes of "legal" gun owners.


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Swanny 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 09:27 AM
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QUOTE
The fact is that most "illegal" handguns in the hands of criminals have their source in thefts from the homes of "legal" gun owners.


Interesting "fact". Would you please provide a reference to document it?

QUOTE
crimes involving guns are very rare in the UK, where handguns are not allowed. I dont know if this is the case in Canada, which has similar controls on handguns.


According to the BBC, crimes of violence have been increasing significantly in the U.K. A 2004 article on the BBC's website reported a 14% increase in violent crimes in a single year. "Offences of violence against the person rose 17%, serious violence such as killings were up 18%, and serious wounding and sexual offences rose 8%."

During the year reported, the BBC article noted a 34% reduction in gun crimes, but a 46% increase in crimes involving imitation guns. Source http://www.bbc.co.uk/home/d/

A bit more recently (September 2005), an article in Times Online noted that Scotland is the most violent nation in the developed world, with a per capita assault rate that is three times that of the United States. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2-...1786945,00.html

"The study, by the UNís crime research institute, found that 3 per cent of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2 per cent in America and just 0.1 per cent in Japan, 0.2 per cent in Italy and 0.8 per cent in Austria. In England and Wales the figure was 2.8 per cent."

Apparently in the U.K., knives, swords, ice picks, screw drivers, rocks and common household items have taken the place of firearms as tools of choice in the hands of the violent.

Swanny



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maisky 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 10:12 AM
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QUOTE (Swanny @ 21-Dec-2006, 08:27 AM)



A bit more recently (September 2005), an article in Times Online noted that Scotland is the most violent nation in the developed world, with a per capita assault rate that is three times that of the United States. 


Not surprising, since the Scotts are even more violent than the Irish. I ascribe this to the fact that the Irish are usually too drunk to fight. biggrin.gif

By the way, Swanny. I feel gratified that I was able to draw blood with that one. laugh.gif
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 11:03 AM
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It's distressing. isn't it? sad.gif

The Scotsman has been covering this issue periodically. The biggest violence escalation in Scotland recently is as you mention, Swanny, not gun violence, it's knives and other blades (even swords). Bears some interpretation, perhaps -- throwback nationalism, to when the claymore was kingmaker? Or just easier to get hold of, and quieter.
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Patch 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 06:31 PM
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I "stumbled onto this thread" and I have strong feelings re: the matter. I promoted "OFCC" and Buckeye Firearms untill the concealed cary law was passed in Ohio and I am still working to iron out the "wrinkles" in the law. A lot of people read the various ammendments, including the second, and make their decision as to the meaning. To truly understand what our forefathers intended, one needs to read the "Federalist Papers". The founding fathers had a deep fear of Government. Instead of a strong central government (which we now have and what they left Europe to get away from) In reading the Constitution I believe you will find that there 23 instances where the government is prohibited from involvment. There are a small number of powers granted to the Federal
Government. All other powers (which are most) are to lie with the states. That is no longer the case. All Federal electees swear in their oath of office to"uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and to defend it against ALL enemies both foriegn and domestic." What happened? the government was to be "of the people, by the people and for the people." Our "representatives were supposed to serve in Washington for a specified period of time then return home and another citizen would do his patriotic duty. We now have "professional" politicians. To quote Thomas Jefferson, "once the public finds that it can vote itself lagress from the public treasury, the Republic is lost!" Look around you! It is frightening! I fear we have left our children and grandchildren nothing.
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 09:28 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 21-Dec-2006, 06:31 PM)
I "stumbled onto this thread" and I have strong feelings re: the matter. I promoted "OFCC" and Buckeye Firearms untill the concealed cary law was passed in Ohio and I am still working to iron out the "wrinkles" in the law. A lot of people read the various ammendments, including the second, and make their decision as to the meaning. To truly understand what our forefathers intended, one needs to read the "Federalist Papers". The founding fathers had a deep fear of Government. Instead of a strong central government (which we now have and what they left Europe to get away from) In reading the Constitution I believe you will find that there 23 instances where the government is prohibited from involvment. There are a small number of powers granted to the Federal
Government. All other powers (which are most) are to lie with the states. That is no longer the case. All Federal electees swear in their oath of office to"uphold the Constitution of the United States of America and to defend it against ALL enemies both foriegn and domestic." What happened? the government was to be "of the people, by the people and for the people." Our "representatives were supposed to serve in Washington for a specified period of time then return home and another citizen would do his patriotic duty. We now have "professional" politicians. To quote Thomas Jefferson, "once the public finds that it can vote itself lagress from the public treasury, the Republic is lost!" Look around you! It is frightening! I fear we have left our children and grandchildren nothing.

This is all very true. It's sad that a lot of people don't realize this or try to say it doesn't mean what it says. SOme people have told me that the 2nd amendment doesn't grant us the right to bear arms. But in what I believe to be 45 state constitutions, it says it clear as day. Here in Florida it says it clear as day that we have the right to bear arms in order to defend ourselves. I don't think the fed can touch that one. OHHH! I'm sure some of the cronnies would love to. Feinstein, and Pelosi are to name just 2.
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 09:58 PM
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QUOTE (maisky @ 21-Dec-2006, 07:37 AM)



The fact is that most "illegal" handguns in the hands of criminals have their source in thefts from the homes of "legal" gun owners.

So swanny is that if the law abiding citizen isn't allowed to have a gun, then the bad guys can't get the guns? That is ridicules! Illegal drugs still make it across the border. As in England. Guns still make it into the wrong hands.
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 21-Dec-2006, 10:00 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 21-Dec-2006, 11:03 AM)
It's distressing. isn't it? sad.gif

The Scotsman has been covering this issue periodically. The biggest violence escalation in Scotland recently is as you mention, Swanny, not gun violence, it's knives and other blades (even swords). Bears some interpretation, perhaps -- throwback nationalism, to when the claymore was kingmaker? Or just easier to get hold of, and quieter.

Yes. Violence is everywhere. It's not going away either. sad.gif
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 27-Dec-2006, 06:28 AM
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Second Amendment is worth protecting
Back in the 1990s some 80 people were murdered in New York City. It only took one man to commit these murders.
His weapon ó a gallon of gasoline.
This was the "Happyland" club fire, and he was able to commit this crime because his victims were disarmed and defenseless. Who disarmed all these victims? The New York politicians.
If the victims at Foxy Lady had only had some small "Saturday Nite Specials" on their persons, they could have immediately opened fire on their attacker and maybe have stopped the murders.
Disarmed and defenseless victims cannot do this.
Many confused people believe that only the military and police should have guns. Remember the two military attacks on the White House by military persons, one in a plane and the other in a helicopter?
How about the New Bedford police selling drugs out of their cars while off duty?
Should we get rid of the military and New Bedford police based on these crimes?
Always remember, the Second Amendment acknowledges an unalienable right of the People, not of the "militia" or the "State," for artificial entities like the militia or state do NOT have unalienable rights.
Show me where in the Constitution it allows for the creation of a "police department"?
The U.S. Supreme Court in South V Maryland, 59 US 396, as cited by the Massachusetts Supreme Judicial Court, tells every American, the police are NOT responsible for your safety.
You cannot sue the police if you are a victim of crime that the police could have even prevented!
If the police are not mandated to protect you, you are lawfully acknowledged to be able to protect yourself.
Those who cannot protect you, cannot allow you to be disarmed and defenseless either.


This is something I whole heartily believe in. I still can't understand why politicians from both side think taking guns from citizens is the answer.
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Swanny 
Posted: 27-Dec-2006, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (Nova Scotian @ 21-Dec-2006, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE (maisky @ 21-Dec-2006, 07:37 AM)



  The fact is that most "illegal" handguns in the hands of criminals have their source in thefts from the homes of "legal" gun owners.

So swanny is that if the law abiding citizen isn't allowed to have a gun, then the bad guys can't get the guns? That is ridicules! Illegal drugs still make it across the border. As in England. Guns still make it into the wrong hands.

???

I'm not sure I understand your question, Nova. I was asking Maisky to provide documentation for his alleged "fact", which he has not yet done. It may be intuitive to think that most "illegal" firearms were stolen from private residences, but I'm not willing to accept "intuitive" at face value.

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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 27-Dec-2006, 09:32 AM
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QUOTE (Swanny @ 27-Dec-2006, 09:16 AM)
QUOTE (Nova Scotian @ 21-Dec-2006, 05:58 PM)
QUOTE (maisky @ 21-Dec-2006, 07:37 AM)



† The fact is that most "illegal" handguns in the hands of criminals have their source in thefts from the homes of "legal" gun owners.

So swanny is that if the law abiding citizen isn't allowed to have a gun, then the bad guys can't get the guns? That is ridicules! Illegal drugs still make it across the border. As in England. Guns still make it into the wrong hands.

???

I'm not sure I understand your question, Nova. I was asking Maisky to provide documentation for his alleged "fact", which he has not yet done. It may be intuitive to think that most "illegal" firearms were stolen from private residences, but I'm not willing to accept "intuitive" at face value.

I was asking him if he thinks the solution is to remove the guns from private citizens so the bad guys can't steel the gun and use it. It sure sounded like that was what was implied.
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Nova Scotian 
Posted: 27-Dec-2006, 09:35 AM
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Oh also Swanny, Bro. Maisky has been asked to provide documentation before but never seems to come up with it. I don't know why. unsure.gif
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maisky 
Posted: 27-Dec-2006, 12:31 PM
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Why would I quote sources you wont belive? It's like trying to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and annoys the pig. rolleyes.gif
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