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Elspeth 
  Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 10:05 AM
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Is anyone else feeling stereotyped to be a Christian?

As if we all were ultra-conservative, narrow minded men and women who thought they walked six inches above the ground so as to not dirty themselves in the filth of humankind.

As if all Christian women spoke softly, wore sensible shoes and no make-up or jewlery, had hair the color of dishwater and personalities not much more interesting.

As if Christian men were deluded fools who gave up being real men.

As if the only thing we ever read was the Bible or Christian material. Only ever listened to monotone Christian dronings marketed as music.

As if we were all ready at a moment's notice to bash anyone who disagreed with us over the head with our Bible's, shoot them with our Bible guns, hog tie and drag them into church, calling on the community to sit on them until they repented, saving them 'for their own good'.

Where did this come from? The media? Television and movies?

Evangelical Christianity seems swathed in shade of gray. The Amish at least get black and white.

OK, just ranting..... But anyone else feel that this perception is being propogated?


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celticfire 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 10:58 AM
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I agree--I have some non-Christian friends who don't quite understand the full meaning of it. I'm not exactly discriminated, but teased sometimes because, of course, Chrisianity+me=nun--funny!
It's a very childish way to get laughs.


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Raven 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 11:41 AM
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I feel that this perception is propogated.

Often inocently by new Christians who are indoctinated to change the outer person in ways that are often on indication of the inside.

By people who use their cloak of Christianity to justify all of their actions. In my business if someone tells me with in the first few minutes of conversation that they are a Christian, I automatically put up a sheild because of the high incidence of Slow Pay, unreliability, and no pay. Many making it difficult for the Christians of integrity. Hiding behind their faith saying that they are trusting God to pay their bills or to give them the money for their bank card to get the product in that they are wasting your time with telling you to put it on hold and calling every few days to see if you are still holding it.

How can they be so arogant as to think that their misguided faith is a reason to put me at risk. Did God surely tell them to go out on a credit limb. If God did not provide, I think not.

The media of course searches for the sensational or not in order for their news to be interesting.

Regardless, as I am sure you know, these types were not made up but exist in abundance. It is not fair but I certainly understand they whys.

When I became a Christian as an adult over 20 years ago, I had people in the Church constantly trying to dumb me down. Rather than answer straight forward simple questions, they would encorage me to just believe and not worry so much about the truth. The Bible talks of those that are perishing because they did not recieve a love of the Truth. I think this is very very excellant and strong wisdom regardless of what you may think of the Bible. It applies on so many levels. The Bible tells us that the Truth will set us free.

I think that people of real faith are confused daily with those who are simply religeous hanger oners. That lack in real substance and conviction. (note that I am not saying that women who wear no make up or who wear sensible shoes fit this category smile.gif)

But I think this category (having a form of Godliness but denying the power there of) is the category that puts the rest of us in this stereo type.

Just my 2 pence

Mikel


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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 12:05 PM
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QUOTE (Raven @ 04-Mar-2006, 11:41 AM)
I feel that this perception is propogated.....

By people who use their cloak of Christianity to justify all of their actions. In my business if someone tells me with in the first few minutes of conversation that they are a Christian, I automatically put up a sheild because of the high incidence of Slow Pay, unreliability, and no pay. Many making it difficult for the Christians of integrity. Hiding behind their faith saying that they are trusting God to pay their bills or to give them the money for their bank card to get the product in that they are wasting your time with telling you to put it on hold and calling every few days to see if you are still holding it.

How can they be so arogant as to think that their misguided faith is a reason to put me at risk. Did God surely tell them to go out on a credit limb. If God did not provide, I think not.
I'm wary of anyone who finds it necessary to tell me upon first introduction that they are a "Christian" (unless we are in a church). A Christian should live his/her faith and should not find it necessary to announce to each and every person they meet that they are one.

Jesus said:

Matthew 7:16-20 (KJV)

16Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.


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I know that my Redeemer lives, and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. Job 19:25

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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln

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Raven 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 01:24 PM
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Exactly my point Mr Mac tongue.gif

None the less, it is where a lot of stereo typing comes from.

Mikel
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WizardofOwls 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 03:26 PM
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Well, um, I guess I'm in trouble with both you guys, because I usually try to work in the fact that I am a Christian in any conversation asap with anyone I have just met. I don't do it to try to pressure anyone into my way of thinking or anything like that. I do it for many reasons, but the main one being that I am VERY offended by curse words and harsh language, and it is my hope that if someone knows that I am a Christian, that - perhaps out of respect for me as a persoa - they will refrain from using it in my presence. I am also gauging their reactions to my statement. I want to make sure that any new person I meet is aware of who I am and what I am about in advance, thereby saving us from possibly embarrassing situations later - such as when a new employee told me a dirty joke at work only to find out later that I am a Christian.

When you meet someone new, most people want to exchange personal details, at least on an acquaintance level ("So what do you enjoy doing?" etc.) Well, I am a Christian. It is what I do, and its who I am. The sooner other people learn that, the more they will know about me.


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Sln agus beannachd,
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marti64 
  Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 05:06 PM
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I have to agree with the Wiz on this one. Although I Don't necessarily announce that I am a Christian when I meet someone for the first time, I hope my actions wil let pple know of my religious beliefs. I believe that there is "something"(regardless of what it is called) that is guiding our lives.

Short Story to illustrate: I was raised in a Congregational Church. I attended a small Catholic Women's College( although co-ed now.
While walking around for the first time, and meeting the Sisters that ran the school, my Mom asked the Sister President how the school treated NON_CATHOLICS(like what, was she thinking, I don't know!!!!!)
The Pres. stated something to the effect that all students were treated equally, regardless of faith!!! (DUH???)

I preceded to join the Folk Group, attended Catholic Mass, sometimes even after attending my own sunday Services at home.

POINT:::: I told the sisters that we all believe in the SAME GOD< and I preferred to be on a DIFFERENT CHANNEL!!!!

I made many friends with the sisters at school, some of which have gone on to be with the "MAN UPSTAIRS"!!! I hope they are watching me!!!

MARTI




--------------------
]AN EXCERPT FROM A POEM THAT I WROTE ON 10/11/07

WE CAN'T CHANGE WHAT WE HAVE DONE....
BUT ONLY TAKE A LESSON FROM EACH EXPERIENCE
AND MAKE THE MOST OF EACH MINUTE THAT WE HAVE LEFT
AND TELL OURELVES THAT IT IS OK TO LIVE, LAUGH AND CRY.....
PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE ALL WORK TOGETHER
TO GIVE US WHAT WE CAN AND SHOULD EXPERIENCE
AND WE NEED TO CHERISH ALL OF THE TIME
THAT WE SPEND WITH OURSELVES AND OTHERS MAKING THE MOST OF THE SPECIAL MEMORIES THAT ARE OURS..
AND THE ONES THAT WE HAVE YET TO CREATE WITH THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVEN'T MET!!!!![/SIZE]
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Raven 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE (WizardofOwls @ 04-Mar-2006, 03:26 PM)
Well, um, I guess I'm in trouble with both you guys, because I usually try to work in the fact that I am a Christian in any conversation asap with anyone I have just met. I don't do it to try to pressure anyone into my way of thinking or anything like that. I do it for many reasons, but the main one being that I am VERY offended by curse words and harsh language, and it is my hope that if someone knows that I am a Christian, that - perhaps out of respect for me as a persoa - they will refrain from using it in my presence. I am also gauging their reactions to my statement. I want to make sure that any new person I meet is aware of who I am and what I am about in advance, thereby saving us from possibly embarrassing situations later - such as when a new employee told me a dirty joke at work only to find out later that I am a Christian.

When you meet someone new, most people want to exchange personal details, at least on an acquaintance level ("So what do you enjoy doing?" etc.) Well, I am a Christian. It is what I do, and its who I am. The sooner other people learn that, the more they will know about me.

Hey Wiz

I don't think anyone said you are in trouble for what you do, only that this is where some of the stereotyping comes from.

I personally find that I do not need to anounce my faith in a first meeting do to the reasons sited by Mr Mac. I have done it both ways and find that if there is going to be awkwardness or embarassment that the instant introduction of my faith seems to cause it more and at the least results in my being instantly on the outside. Not that I personally care about in or out, but in order to relate to people and be in good comunication I find it better to be on the in.

I think the stereotyping issue is quite probably the reason for the reserve that is to be found as a result of the instant introduction of my faith. I don't keep it a secret either. Most people figure it out in short order. I became a Christian 20 years ago as I said, as an adult, and it seemed (and still seems) that Christians have a hard time accepting that making Jesus your Lord can actually be a totally rational decision with no emotional input what so ever, and that you can walk a walk of faith that is logical and rational. The supernatural is not necesarilly the unexplainable. (but it can be)

If it makes you happy by all means smile.gif I'm not hating.
That is just what I have percieved to be the reason for much of the stereo typing.

All the best

Mikel
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oldraven 
Posted: 04-Mar-2006, 07:13 PM
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Simply put, Zealots ruin it for the rest. There are people who put religion far above faith, and that is where the idiotic actions and beliefs come from.

Mikel hit the nail on the head with the ignorance of new believers, and stuborn old doctrine dictated people. There is a fine line between what is written in the book, and what people can twist out of it.

And, of course, there is 2000 years of maniacs hiding behind the religions that the sane Christians have to try and burry in the past. The problem really is modern day people's lack of ability to tell the difference.


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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 09:50 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ 04-Mar-2006, 06:28 PM)
QUOTE (WizardofOwls @ 04-Mar-2006, 03:26 PM)
Well, um, I guess I'm in trouble with both you guys, because I usually try to work in the fact that I am a Christian in any conversation asap with anyone I have just met. I don't do it to try to pressure anyone into my way of thinking or anything like that. I do it for many reasons, but the main one being that I am VERY offended by curse words and harsh language, and it is my hope that if someone knows that I am a Christian, that  - perhaps out of respect for me as a persoa - they will refrain from using it in my presence. I am also gauging their reactions to my statement. I want to make sure that any new person I meet is aware of who I am and what I am about in advance, thereby saving us from possibly embarrassing situations later -  such as when a new employee told me a dirty joke at work only to find out later that I am a Christian.

When you meet someone new, most people want to exchange personal details, at least on an acquaintance level ("So what do you enjoy doing?" etc.) Well, I am a Christian. It is what I do, and its who I am. The sooner other people learn that, the more they will know about me.

Hey Wiz

I don't think anyone said you are in trouble for what you do, only that this is where some of the stereotyping comes from.

I personally find that I do not need to anounce my faith in a first meeting do to the reasons sited by Mr Mac. I have done it both ways and find that if there is going to be awkwardness or embarassment that the instant introduction of my faith seems to cause it more and at the least results in my being instantly on the outside. Not that I personally care about in or out, but in order to relate to people and be in good comunication I find it better to be on the in.

I think the stereotyping issue is quite probably the reason for the reserve that is to be found as a result of the instant introduction of my faith. I don't keep it a secret either. Most people figure it out in short order. I became a Christian 20 years ago as I said, as an adult, and it seemed (and still seems) that Christians have a hard time accepting that making Jesus your Lord can actually be a totally rational decision with no emotional input what so ever, and that you can walk a walk of faith that is logical and rational. The supernatural is not necesarilly the unexplainable. (but it can be)

If it makes you happy by all means smile.gif I'm not hating.
That is just what I have percieved to be the reason for much of the stereo typing.

All the best

Mikel

Wiz,

Ditto what Brother Mike said.

As Mike reminded us this thread is about Christian stereotyping. There are lots of evil people in this world that will use any method to obtain what they want, including telling you they are a Christian (or for that matter tell you just about anything else that may gain your confidence so they can take advantage of you or rob you blind).

Here's an example I'm personally familiar with:

The business I work for (before the mega-corporation bought us) was an locally owned and operated Low-voltage contractor. All bookkeeping was done in the local office (billing/invoicing, paying vendors, rent, utilities, ect.....) by a "lady" (lady is really not a good description of this person) we'll call Mary. This "lady" had the complete confidence of the owner (a good Southern Baptist like me, well at least as good as we Southern Baptists can be {we try}, a member of the Church my parents and siblings were baptized in) because she was a pastor's wife (different denomination) and a "pillar" of her church.

Well this "pillar" of the church tried to take the company for every penny she could get and put it out of business to cover her tracks (the company she worked for before also went bankrupt, I'm betting she did the samething there)! She hired her daughter as an assistant and paid her daughter and herself two paychecks every week, paid her mortgage and car payment(s), paid all her credit cards, bought boats and an RV all with the company's money. The company almost went bankrupt (this is a company that at the time was doing 5-7 million dollars a year in business with about 25 employees). People got laid off, pay raises were non-existent, pay cuts were in the works all because of this "good Christian".

The world does not judge us by our statements, but by our actions, and these are the kind of people we have hung around our necks (even if we don't deserve it) when we announce to the world we are a Christian.

So I'll repeat the words of Jesus:
Matthew 7:16 (KJV) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 09:52 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ 04-Mar-2006, 06:28 PM)
QUOTE (WizardofOwls @ 04-Mar-2006, 03:26 PM)
Well, um, I guess I'm in trouble with both you guys, because I usually try to work in the fact that I am a Christian in any conversation asap with anyone I have just met. I don't do it to try to pressure anyone into my way of thinking or anything like that. I do it for many reasons, but the main one being that I am VERY offended by curse words and harsh language, and it is my hope that if someone knows that I am a Christian, that - perhaps out of respect for me as a persoa - they will refrain from using it in my presence. I am also gauging their reactions to my statement. I want to make sure that any new person I meet is aware of who I am and what I am about in advance, thereby saving us from possibly embarrassing situations later - such as when a new employee told me a dirty joke at work only to find out later that I am a Christian.

When you meet someone new, most people want to exchange personal details, at least on an acquaintance level ("So what do you enjoy doing?" etc.) Well, I am a Christian. It is what I do, and its who I am. The sooner other people learn that, the more they will know about me.

Hey Wiz

I don't think anyone said you are in trouble for what you do, only that this is where some of the stereotyping comes from.

I personally find that I do not need to anounce my faith in a first meeting do to the reasons sited by Mr Mac. I have done it both ways and find that if there is going to be awkwardness or embarassment that the instant introduction of my faith seems to cause it more and at the least results in my being instantly on the outside. Not that I personally care about in or out, but in order to relate to people and be in good comunication I find it better to be on the in.

I think the stereotyping issue is quite probably the reason for the reserve that is to be found as a result of the instant introduction of my faith. I don't keep it a secret either. Most people figure it out in short order. I became a Christian 20 years ago as I said, as an adult, and it seemed (and still seems) that Christians have a hard time accepting that making Jesus your Lord can actually be a totally rational decision with no emotional input what so ever, and that you can walk a walk of faith that is logical and rational. The supernatural is not necesarilly the unexplainable. (but it can be)

If it makes you happy by all means smile.gif I'm not hating.
That is just what I have percieved to be the reason for much of the stereo typing.

All the best

Mikel

Wiz,

Ditto what Brother Mike said.

As Mike reminded us this thread is about Christian stereotyping. There are lots of evil people in this world that will use any method to obtain what they want, including telling you they are a Christian (or for that matter they'll say anything else that may gain your confidence so they can take advantage of you or rob you blind).

Here's an example I'm personally familiar with:

The business I work for (before the mega-corporation bought us) was an locally owned and operated Low-voltage contractor. All bookkeeping was done in the local office (billing/invoicing, paying vendors, rent, utilities, ect.....) by a "lady" (lady is really not a good description of this person) we'll call Mary. This "lady" had the complete confidence of the owner (a good Southern Baptist like me, well at least as good as we Southern Baptists can be {we try}, a member of the Church my parents and siblings were baptized in) because she was a pastor's wife (different denomination) and a "pillar" of her church.

Well this "pillar" of the church tried to take the company for every penny she could before putting it out of business to cover her tracks! She hired her daughter as an assistant and paid her daughter and herself two paychecks every week, paid her mortgage and car payment(s), paid all her credit cards, bought boats and an RV all with the company's money. The company almost went bankrupt (this is a company that at the time was doing 5-7 million dollars a year in business with about 25 employees). People got laid off, pay raises were non-existent, pay cuts were in the works all because of this "good Christian".

The world does not judge us by our statements, but by our actions, and these are the kind of people we have hung around our necks (even if we don't deserve it) when we announce to the world we are a Christian.

So I'll repeat the words of Jesus:
Matthew 7:16 (KJV) Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
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Shadows 
Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 10:15 AM
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I, being non-christian, want to interject some thoughts here...

1st off , don't try to convert me!

The thought that christians seem to have is to convert the heathens!

I am not a heathen, I believe in a creator and his creations.

I do Not need to be preached at by those who think that their way is the only way.

Salvation of those that already have more of a handle on what the creator is about turns folks off.

These are the things that cause that sterotype to supported as real.

Find out what I believe before you preach.. I may be able to teach you some things.

These are just my opinions, and mine only.



--------------------
I support the separation of church and hate!

IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!


One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na hairm san tsith, cha bhi iad aige n am a chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS


Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ 04-Mar-2006, 07:13 PM)
Simply put, Zealots ruin it for the rest. There are people who put religion far above faith, and that is where the idiotic actions and beliefs come from.

Mikel hit the nail on the head with the ignorance of new believers, and stuborn old doctrine dictated people. There is a fine line between what is written in the book, and what people can twist out of it.

And, of course, there is 2000 years of maniacs hiding behind the religions that the sane Christians have to try and burry in the past. The problem really is modern day people's lack of ability to tell the difference.

QUOTE (Shadows @ 05-Mar-2006, 10:15 AM)
I, being non-christian, want to interject some thoughts here...

1st off , don't try to convert me!

The thought that christians seem to have is to convert the heathens!

I am not a heathen, I believe in a creator and his creations.

I do Not need to be preached at by those who think that their way is the only way.

Salvation of those that already have more of a handle on what the creator is about turns folks off.

These are the things that cause that sterotype to supported as real.

Find out what I believe before you preach.. I may be able to teach you some things.

These are just my opinions, and mine only.

I believe the original intent of this thread was to discuss stereotyping of Christians as people who pretend to be morally superior when in all actuality theyre just a bunch of hypocrites or con men trying to put something over on someone. But now weve finally found were the proverbial rubber hits the road or the s@&% hits the fan in the opinion of a number of people with these two posts. I think oldraven was hinting at it with his Zealot comment and then our beloved curmudgeon, Shadows, in his own immutable way, said it like it is: to some people the stereotypical Christian is what most Christians should be and more than a few people don't like them.

I dont know how a Christian can be a Christian and not, when given the opportunity, share the Gospel with his neighbors. The last words from Jesus before he ascended to heaven were:
QUOTE
Matthew 28:18-20(KJV)
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: 20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.


If we wont tell our neighbors about the Gods free gift what good is it? Who are our neighbors anyway? Jesus answered that question this way:
QUOTE
Luke 10:25-37
25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life? 26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou? 27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. 29But he, willing to justify himself, said unto Jesus, And who is my neighbour? 30And Jesus answering said, A certain man went down from Jerusalem to Jericho, and fell among thieves, which stripped him of his raiment, and wounded him, and departed, leaving him half dead.31And by chance there came down a certain priest that way: and when he saw him, he passed by on the other side. 32And likewise a Levite, when he was at the place, came and looked on him, and passed by on the other side. 33But a certain Samaritan, as he journeyed, came where he was: and when he saw him, he had compassion on him, 34And went to him, and bound up his wounds, pouring in oil and wine, and set him on his own beast, and brought him to an inn, and took care of him.35And on the morrow when he departed, he took out two pence, and gave them to the host, and said unto him, Take care of him; and whatsoever thou spendest more, when I come again, I will repay thee. 36Which now of these three, thinkest thou, was neighbour unto him that fell among the thieves? 37And he said, He that shewed mercy on him. Then said Jesus unto him, Go, and do thou likewise.

Now there may be those here among us who may actually enjoy being beat up, stripped naked, and thrown in a ditch (both literally and figuratively) but when someone happens by and offers them a hand what cause do they have to take offence. If you like it there just politely say: No thanks, Im happy were I am. If, as that person departs, they say theyll pray for you is that enough reason to take further offence?



Now Shadows, I know for a fact I have never attempted to convert you but since you entered the CR.net virtual church and yelled don't try to help me (I think Ill ask Macfive to post a warning at the entrance: Christians talking about Christ inside, Enter at your own Risk!) I consider you fair game! Here it goes:

Shadows, God has a gift for you and all you have to do is reach out and take it. Here it is in his words not mine:

QUOTE
Romans 3:1-21
1What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision? 2Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God. 3For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith of God without effect? 4God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. 5But if our unrighteousness commend the righteousness of God, what shall we say? Is God unrighteous who taketh vengeance? (I speak as a man) 6God forbid: for then how shall God judge the world? 7For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner? 8And not rather, (as we be slanderously reported, and as some affirm that we say,) Let us do evil, that good may come? whose damnation is just. 9What then? are we better than they? No, in no wise: for we have before proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin; 10As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: 11There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God. 12They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one. 13Their throat is an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps is under their lips: 14Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness: 15Their feet are swift to shed blood: 16Destruction and misery are in their ways: 17And the way of peace have they not known: 18There is no fear of God before their eyes.19Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;


QUOTE
John 1:1-18 1.
1In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2The same was in the beginning with God. 3All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. 4In him was life; and the life was the light of men.5And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. 6There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.8He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. 9That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world. 10He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. 11He came unto his own, and his own received him not. 12But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. 14And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.15John bare witness of him, and cried, saying, This was he of whom I spake, He that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me. 16And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. 17For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. 18No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.


QUOTE
John 3:15-21
15That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 16For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.17For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.


QUOTE
Romans 10:3-15
3For they being ignorant of Gods righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God. 4For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth. 5For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them. 6But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Christ down from above:) 7Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Christ again from the dead.) 8But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach;9That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. 10For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. 11For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.12For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him. 13For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!


QUOTE
Ephesians 2:1-22
1And you hath he quickened, who were dead in trespasses and sins; 2Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience: 3Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.4But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved;) 6And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus: 7That in the ages to come he might show the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus. 8For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 9Not of works, lest any man should boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.11Wherefore remember, that ye being in time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called Uncircumcision by that which is called the Circumcision in the flesh made by hands; 12That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: 13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. 18For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. 19Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; 20And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: 22In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
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Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 04:40 PM
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I have to agree with Shadows. As a member of a non-christian religion The LAST thing I want is someone trying to tell me that MY choice is wrong and HIS is right! I was raisedin a christian household, but after I left home and entered the world on my own I realized that it was wrong for ME. Since I have always studied the people of the Northern Plains, (part of my heritage) It was onl natural that I came into contact with their religion. The more I studied the more it made sense to ME. But I only tell people about it if they WANT to know, and I DON"T want to hear about their's. This trying to convert is possibly the most annoying thing I run into.

My $.02


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Posted: 05-Mar-2006, 04:49 PM
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NO offense to anyone but I agree with Mr Mac that posting off topic in a Christian Forum saying you don't want anyone telling you about Christianity is asking for it.

I don't personally believe in shoving something someone doesn't want down their throat regardless of how helpful it may be tongue.gif

But I wouldn't go to a Pagan forum and tell them I didn't want them to tell me about their spirituality if telling people about it was a part of their belief.

Personal Belief is a 2 way street.

My 2 pennies also (almost a most embarassing mispelling their) biggrin.gif

Mikel

BTW I have never called anyone a heathen apart from my sisters kids tongue.gif
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