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Should we deport Anton Geiser?
Yes [ 2 ]  [20.00%]
No [ 8 ]  [80.00%]
Total Votes: 10
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connor1985 
Posted on 03-Mar-2006, 09:49 PM
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I have been trying to follow this story for the past few months and i thought (and hoped) for a while it disappeared. Anton Geiser an 81 year old man admitted last year that he was a Nazi concentration camp guard but told federal prosecutors that he did not embrace the ideology of the Third Reich. this man had to serve in Germany during WW2 and was part of the Waffen SS. he was SENT to Sachsenhausen concentration camp for most of 1943 as armed SS Death Head guard. notice he did not have a choice in this matter. Geiser was DRAFTED!!! into the military. federal officials are saying that 50 years ago Geiser would never have been allowed into America if he told officials he was a concentration camp guard however they never asked him so he never said anything. he came to America in 1956 and became a U.S citizen in 1962. he has worked at a steel factory for 31 years retiring in 1987. now explain this to me why after 50 years is the government trying to deport this man back Germany and revoke his citizenship? this man didn't have a choice on what he was forced to do. in Germany during WW2 if you were drafted you didn't have a choice of saying no you didn't want to if you did not serve you were shot. is it far for us then to punish this man for wanting to live? let me think some of our own American born men ran from the government when the draft was used in vietnam and if found were forced to serve, sent to jail, or in some cases (covered up of course) killed. so if we were to deport this CITIZEN then all those who ran should go to jail or be killed. its as simple as that. this man has said he hated what he was forced to do but claims to never have killed any of the inmate under his care. he witnessed things but was afraid to speak out for fear of reprisals or even death itself. now i'm not saying his hands are clean but it is not our place 50 plus years later to say he has no right to be here just because of what he was forced to do. when faced with certain death some people would do anything to live but this is not how they should be repaid. he did his time before coming to America the land of the free to start a new life something many of our own ancestors did and now the government feels he should be sent back to what? nothing! he's 89 almost 90 years old let the poor man live his life with his wife and children. he has witnessed things no one should ever see and i'm sure that will haunt him forever that i think is punishment enough for forced service.


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MacEoghainn 
Posted on 04-Mar-2006, 12:16 PM
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I voted no with the caveat that if this man is accused of provable alligations that he personally committed atrocities then ship him back to Germany for trial.


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sisterknight 
Posted on 04-Mar-2006, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (MacEoghainn @ 04-Mar-2006, 12:16 PM)
if this man is accused of provable alligations that he personally committed atrocities then ship him back to Germany for trial.

just don't send him to canada...the man may be old but if he did the crime her should do the crime......aren't there still death laws on books somewhere?


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Monarchs Own 
Posted on 04-Mar-2006, 09:02 PM
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I voted No! Since I am german myself and live in the US - not as a citizen though - just regular resident alien I have to say that I think he should stay here. They shouldn't deport their own citizens.

A lot of people don't know what it was like during this time. If you didn't follow you ended up exactly where all the others ended up. If you had a family to think of most of the men choose to go with the flow to be able to provide for their family.

It's been now so long and I think we should start letting go of the past. Don't get me wrong - there always should be a reminder of what happened, but I think we should leave those men or women which were drafted and forced to do a job they didn't want to do alone. They are now in their eighties or older. They don't have much time left on this earth. Let them face their punishment (if any) in the next world.

And in my opinion if they didn't ask him when he entered the US in 1956 then they failed and shouldn't now after years revoke their decission.

I had to do all the process before I came here and they asked me loads of questions and checked my police record and all so they should have done that even more so a long time ago, when they knew he was of an age where he could have done things like this.

Just my thoughts though.



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connor1985 
Posted on 05-Mar-2006, 04:11 PM
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i'm glad to see that other people feel as i do on this matter. its like many of you said the man is lmost 90 years old and personally if he's done nothing here then let him be. what he was forced to do was indeed wrong but when faced with death i think many other people did the same. i think that he pissed someone off and that person went snooping or maybe already knew what this man did so he thought he'd mess around and try and force him away. just a thought on that cruel but it happens all the time people get a little dirt and you never know what they might do. i myself believe in DTA Don't Trust Anybody! right now there are only a handful of people i really trust with the truth other people get whatever i tell them be it a lie or what not it doesn' really matter. i don't like the idea that someone out there might on day try to screw me over so i don't tell people anything that coud hurt me. but on topic, as we see now our government is wasting money in court trying to deport this man who from what all i've read has been nothing but a hard working citizen and should be left alone to live out what is left of his life.
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MDF3530 
  Posted on 05-Mar-2006, 05:31 PM
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I voted no.

My reason: the man is 81 years old. Any sentence he'd receive in court would be a death sentence for him.


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sisterknight 
Posted on 06-Mar-2006, 09:42 AM
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my apologies morarch.......but a crime is a crime, i do understand your position as both my x-inlaws were from poland and germany and i heard all about there lives and why they came to canada....but how do we know that he did not do this willingly or was he cohersed? i know the bible says let god sort them out...but lives are lives, and doing good and being an upstanding citizen now does not buy him a get out jail free card. why should he be let go when so many other older folk were apprehended and sentenced?
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Monarchs Own 
Posted on 06-Mar-2006, 04:08 PM
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I see your position sisterknight - I am just saying that it's a bit late now. They granted him citizenship here in the US after all he might have done. If the government didn't asked him and didn't order police records - I am sorry - that's a fault on their part not his. He could have lied which he didn't - he just didn't tell them anything about his life he wasn't asked. That can be seen either way - no denying that.

But the issue is not mainly the punishment here but the issue is why should we deport him? He got granted american citizenship 44 years ago, and was let into the US even longer ago. And after this war they should have suspected plenty of people then which wanted to enter the US that they might have had a history in the war.

Today you aren't allowed to come here if you have a minor police record on you.

Why are they now wanting to revoke his citizienship if he didn't do anything here as a citizien wrong? He might did something wrong during his time in germany as german citizen.

I understand that everybody should have punishment who did things wrong but also we should first determine what he did before we pass judgement.

Just because you were in a certain position doesn't mean that you agreed with what happened, but you were afraid to do something because you might have been the only one and no one would be on your side. How many Hitleryouth boys even turned in their parents because they had sympathy for the jewish people or were even helping them. And how many americans are playing here Hitler supporters and surprise! they don't get thrown out of their country.

Sometimes even in this country I personally was called a Nazi because I am german.
But how does it go - Sticks and stones .....


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connor1985 
Posted on 06-Mar-2006, 09:25 PM
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sisterknight
my apologies morarch.......but a crime is a crime, i do understand your position as both my x-inlaws were from poland and germany and i heard all about there lives and why they came to canada....but how do we know that he did not do this willingly or was he cohersed? i know the bible says let god sort them out...but lives are lives, and doing good and being an upstanding citizen now does not buy him a get out jail free card. why should he be let go when so many other older folk were apprehended and sentenced?


not to be rude but what then do you think should happen to people who are born in america (or canada) and do horrible things like mass murder or rapist? granted if caught they go to prison but they CHOOSE to do the crime. i'm sorry but anyone who is forced to do anything can not and should not be held 100% responsible. now it would be different if this man was going around killing people for no reason just shot them because he felt like it but from what is being stated by him and the federal government that is not the case. also if we as citizen's are held responsible for our countries actions then we are all going to go hell. this so called war to bring freedom to other countries (i think we all know what i'm talking about) is nothing but a cover up for mistakes being made in government. this is the son's war to take out the bad man who daddy couldn't and we really want the oil control (to jack up prices to make our own people suffer) now not to sound sick or anything but what a dictator does in his country is none of our concern! what S.H. did to his people is no different then what America did to the native americans killing them off and forcing them to march hundreds of miles in poor conditions and letting them die on the road. so why has no one held america responsible for that action? history is written by those in control and certain things can be suddenly forgotten or misplaced however that does not mean that a single person FORCED into action should be punished for it no matter what that country did.
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sisterknight 
Posted on 07-Mar-2006, 09:41 AM
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monarch & connor

i may be a little harsh in my judgement and at one time in our lives i'm sure we all been made to do/say things that we are not proud of and the past is the past..but...we can't always rely on the don't ask mentality either...as you said earlier many came to north america after such things and most countries were more than willing even eager to accept new citizens,gouvernments being what they are will always close a blind eye i suppose...if the fellow was as nice as reported then why is this being done so late in his life????i mean how far can an 81 year old piss somebdy off?

the normal everyday crook/murderer ect.(no such thing as normal mind)do eventually get caught, but again there have been studies about the criminal mentality and why they do the things they do(yes there really are studies done!)

in war torn situations the mental life of people, also soldiers and peacekeepers are severely altered .same as kidnapping changes the thought patterns of the kidnappee.justice sometimes is slow but it's like death and taxes...always there

as for your pres. alot of us (canadians) have thought from the beginning that he was trying to better his old man and finish what the old man started...unfortunately he has drug alot of other countries into his little egofest....oooppps sorry
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connor1985 
Posted on 07-Mar-2006, 06:24 PM
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ok i understand what you are saying and i agree to a point. that point being is where do we draw the line? remember this man's job in 1942 was not something he choose and that to me in the underlining issue not what he did or where he was forced to go. granted that doesn't mean we should turn a blind eye or forget what was done if that was done it would happen all the time thankfully it does not. however that doesn't mean we go on a witch hunt and find anyone who had any links to concentration camps or whatnot to deport them from America. as for why all the attention all of a sudden who knows and honestly it doesn't matter all that does matter is a mans rights are being trampled and it is wrong. (from what i have been hearing he may of said something himself but again it doesn't matter) if we were to deport this man for a job he didn't want in the first place then where does it stop? should we deport all middle-eastern people because we think they are responsible for 9/11? it would sound fair if we boot an old german man for past actions. if we really wanted to we could make up any number of reasons to keep people out of the country but that was not what our founding fathers build this country on. (please don't take offence i don't want to be thought of as crude or anything) this country was made to allow people a chance for a new life no matter what they might have been in the past. heck we turned farmers into generals, poor beggars had a chance to make a real living and become better, a servant a chance to become a lord and so on and so forth. the point being is if that is what our ancestors came here for then why do we feel we can change that? granted we are a whole nation now and the land made into states but in the beginning it was a chance of a lifetime one that may never come again (since the world will never get any bigger.) if we want to get to technical we all have taken part in some evil crime be it now of hundreds of years ago when there were only a small number of humans on earth so i guess it would depend on how you look at it now. in looking up some of my family history i found out one of my ancestors was king of a small piece of land hundreds of years ago. however not much is know about him or what type of man he was so if he was a tyrant and killed people for no reason should my family now be held responsible for those actions? (a little far off but just a thought) like i said no one is blameless or perfect and since only this man knows his own mind and heart we really have no right to pass judgement on him. i would hate to be held responsible for what i was forced to do when all i wanted was a chance to live and somehow be happy. i might not agree with what is going on but if someone held a gun to my head and said you do this or else i'm sorry to say i would most likely do it just to live. (depending on what the action is and thats a whole different story) i know its not something any of us want to think about but if we really looked deep inside and were faced with the same question put before him we would have done the same. i know many of you will say no i'd never do that but remember at that time no one really knew what was going on inside those camps it wasn't until later in the war and when many were liberated that we really learned the truth. so in this case what you didn't know is going to hurt him for something he had to do to live. personally what is the gain if we do deport him? one less person who is at the end of his rope sent back with nothing to make a living from scratch something he has done before by coming here. there is nothing to gain out of this but lost tax dollars, bothering a man and forcing him to remember a part of his life that he may not want to and blaming him for someone elses bad memory when asking questions at the gate. let the poor man live his life out in peace and quite with his loved ones!
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Galadriel 
  Posted on 19-Mar-2006, 12:49 AM
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Love the topic in this! A man not 100% responsible for the crime commited nearly exiled for it. I have been watching this poor man on the news feeling horrible for him. Its in the past the past can not be changed this man already carries enough scars emotionally. Plus, I think if this man has lived here so long and has not commited any crimes considering he is living amongst Jews, Hispanics, Irish, Scottish, African-Americans, Native-Americans,etc. Hence We are ALL Americans and deserve to be treated as such equally not because our blood contains a certain race or whatever.


WE ARE AMERICANS!!! Lets be proud of what we have cause there are others that don't have what we are freely allowed to have. German or not this man is an American now! He is like Family!
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sisterknight 
Posted on 20-Mar-2006, 09:34 AM
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QUOTE (connor1985 @ 07-Mar-2006, 06:24 PM)
ok i understand what you are saying and i agree to a point. that point being is where do we draw the line?however that doesn't mean we go on a witch hunt and find anyone who had any links to concentration camps or whatnot to deport them from America.

i'm playing the devil's advocate here but do you know how many other people were hunted down and deported, imprisoned and such for the same offence??they were not just deported from the usa, but from canada, france and a few other countries...i mean the guy is old ok, and probably doesn't have much time left to enjoy his life, but what about the others that were just like him and did not get away???(sorry about the pres. comment)
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Celtic cat 
Posted on 20-Mar-2006, 10:37 AM
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QUOTE (sisterknight @ 20-Mar-2006, 09:34 AM)
i'm playing the devil's advocate here but do you know how many other people were hunted down and deported, imprisoned and such for the same offence??they were not just deported from the usa, but from canada, france and a few other countries...i mean the guy is old ok, and probably doesn't have much time left to enjoy his life, but what about the others that were just like him and did not get away???(sorry about the pres. comment)

I apologize for being cliche but "two wrongs don't make a right". Just because other elderly folk were forced out of his country doesn't mean we hae the right to forced him out of ours. And if he was forced to be there, he can't be blamed. Not everyone has to be a martyr.


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sisterknight 
Posted on 20-Mar-2006, 02:15 PM
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i don't think martyrs even enter into this.from what i can gather no country wants to have war criminals in their backyard.
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