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> What Defines The Term "celtic"
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Druid_of_Ark 
Posted: 13-Mar-2008, 02:38 PM
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Okay I missed something. The topic must have shifted from Celtic to American. Well on that point I can say this, In the words of Woodrow Wilson..."Every stain of greatness in America is colored with Scottish Blood." So perhaps the natural evolution from the oppressive environment of the land dominated by the English to the free land of America was a natural part of the Celtic Evolution. But leaving that point aside let me state that the heart cry of every Scotsman in the world is an echo of the cry of our Forefathers...FREEDOM. "It is in truth not for glory nor riches nor honours that we are fighting but for Freedom. These words from the Declaration of Arbroath are echoed through all history. There are those that are more learned than I who say that the Celts came out of the land of Gaul, which later was known as Galatia. Well if that be so, it is well and good that the next migration was to America. Do I therefore contend that all Americans are Celts...NO! For being Celts was the heritage of most of the founding fathers (75% of the signers of the Declaration of Independence were of Celtic Blood). But being Celts they opened a land where Celtic Hospitality could be expressed and allowed all who wanted freedom to come to this land. This concludes this word from the Sponsors off the American Way of life...the Celtic People of the World United!


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 13-Mar-2008, 03:41 PM
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No, you are still on track. Just a scotborns view of Celtic and responses to different points as the conversation weaves its way about.


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Druid_of_Ark 
Posted: 14-Mar-2008, 02:30 AM
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Well again let me state that just as there are Native Americans that hold to their old ways and keep it alive the same can be said of Celtic People. There will always be Celts as long as even a few keep the ways alive. The history of the Celts goes back before the time they landed in the lands of the 7 nations, and it continues to this day. No amount of persecution, bondage, deprivation, ridicule, or torture can stop the Celtic Heart. So I guess what I am saying is that the Christians could not stop the Celtic Heart, the English could not stop us, the Vikings could not stop it. We are Celts so what defines the Celts is pride in who we are. I am a Celt first, an American second, and anything else I may be after that.
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oldraven 
Posted: 14-Mar-2008, 06:57 AM
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Wow! You're really 'fighting the fight' aren't you? wink.gif I've got to argue with some of it, though.

Galatia is a very small region. The lands of the Gaul were vast. Christians didn't try to 'stop the Celtic heart', nor did the Vikings. Christians only brought their religion in, and there was essentially a merger of the two. St. Patrick didn't walk around with a sword, he walked with a shamrock. They adapted their polydeity beliefs and associations to keep their traditions pertinent to a One God faith.

And the Vikings, they didn't try to uproot the ways of the Celts. They sailed down and plundered, returned home, plundered again, settled the Orkneys, plundered again, settled Dublin, plundered... etc. They had little interest in controlling the people, but much in robbing them. About the same as the exploits of the Gaul in the Mediterranean. Sacking Rome and settling northern Italy (Cisalpine Gaul) and even in Greece (lesser so an expansion into eastern Europe).

Honestly, some of the worst travesties committed on the Celt were committed by the Celt. You can't judge the English for the Jacobite Rebellion without laying blame on the numerous Scot Clans that joined the slaughter.


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Druid_of_Ark 
Posted: 14-Mar-2008, 10:06 AM
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I am of the mindset that the main downfall of the Celts is passed on to America, they had so much infighting that they were easy prey to outsiders. I see America going down that same path. Since America has openly allowed invaders to enter the Country then acts surprised when they attack from within.
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subhuman 
Posted: 16-Jun-2008, 11:11 PM
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I believe the original question posed was:
What defines the term "celtic"
Which I find myself forced to answer with other questions: Are you referring to people, or to cultures?
As has been pointed out, the Celtic Peoples have been very hard to definitively describe for at least several hundred, if not a thousand, years.
Elements of the culture however have survived.
Making the claim "I'm a Celt" is indeed somewhat absurd in this age. Which is why I prefer to reply with "I have Celtic blood." Just as I also have German blood- but I don't try to claim to be German either.
I feel safe making the claim "I have Celtic blood." As was pointed out, the Celts once covered much of Europe. Instead of risking someone asking me to try to prove it, I instead challenge you to disprove it. smile.gif


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Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 
Posted: 18-Jun-2008, 09:31 PM
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Senator James Webb (D.-VA) has writen an interesting book "Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America." The book has been described as a:
QUOTE
straightforward, no-nonsense, readable history that clips right along while it is also very personal and highly idiosyncratic about a people who, he claims, are largely invisible--taken for granted--to the general public and who, seldom thinking of themselves in ethnic identity terms, mostly don't know their culture. Webb maintains that Scots-Irish attitudes form the bedrock of American society, especially among the working class. Scots-Irish culture has produced American presidents from Andrew Jackson to Bill Clinton, soldiers from Ulysses S. Grant to George Patton, pioneers, preachers, and others whose most common characteristics may be described as fierce individualism, persistent egalitarianism, and a strong sense of personal honor. Perhaps the most visible examples of broad and ongoing Scots-Irish legacy are the fundamentalist Christianity (a potent combination of Scottish Calvinism and headstrong populism) of America's Bible Belt and country music. Webb begins the Scots-Irish saga in Scotland, where, he says, the Scots-Irish character was formed, moves on to the Ulster Scots of what is now Northern Ireland, and follows them to the Appalachians and points beyond as well as through the American Revolution, the Civil War, and up to the present day. Popular history at its finest.

Amazon.com: Born Fighting
I would recommend this for anyone interested in Scots-Irish influence on the US.


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 19-Jun-2008, 08:36 AM
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I hope Senator Webb is chosen for VP.

I will add this book to my reading list.
Thx,
USN
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subhuman 
Posted: 22-Jun-2008, 10:37 PM
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QUOTE
I hope Senator Webb is chosen for VP.

Republican Presidents don't often pick Democratic VPs... tongue.gif

And... that's as far OT as I'm gonna go. Hopefully people see that for the humor intended. If we want to make this a political debate, there's plenty of more appropriate areas for it.
Ulster Scots shaping America has little to do with the actual topic here... political commentary, even less.
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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 23-Jun-2008, 10:50 AM
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subhuman,
Humor noted laugh.gif
Topic noted angel_not.gif
USN king.gif beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbs_up.gif Vote for me, I am the meaning of Celtic laugh.gif
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oldraven 
Posted: 24-Jun-2008, 01:01 PM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 23-Jun-2008, 08:50 AM)
USN king.gif beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbsup.gif Vote for me, I am the meaning of Celtic laugh.gif

What Defines The Term "celtic"

USN..... 'nuff said.

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Camac
Posted: 24-Jun-2008, 04:00 PM
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QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 23-Jun-2008, 10:50 AM)
subhuman,
Humor noted laugh.gif
Topic noted angel_not.gif
USN king.gif beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbsup.gif Vote for me, I am the meaning of Celtic laugh.gif

USN;

You want my vote pay up. (I believe in the Rotten Borough System) cost you a case of pepsi.gif pepsi.gif pepsi.gif rolleyes.gif clap.gif


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UlsterScotNutt 
Posted: 07-Jul-2008, 11:54 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 24-Jun-2008, 04:00 PM)
QUOTE (UlsterScotNutt @ 23-Jun-2008, 10:50 AM)
subhuman,
Humor noted laugh.gif
Topic noted angel_not.gif
USN king.gif  beer_mug.gif  note.gif  thumbsup.gif Vote for me, I am the meaning of Celtic laugh.gif

USN;

You want my vote pay up. (I believe in the Rotten Borough System) cost you a case of pepsi.gif pepsi.gif pepsi.gif rolleyes.gif clap.gif


Camac.

Camac, Will ya take me IOU til another day??!!
USN beer_mug.gif note.gif thumbs_up.gif angel_not.gif
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Camac
Posted: 07-Jul-2008, 01:12 PM
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USN;

Of course I'll accept your I.O.U. along with a blood and tissue sample and the indentureship of seven years for one of your children. If I think of anything else I'll let you know.

evil.gif bye1.gif

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MacNaBracha 
Posted: 11-Jul-2008, 11:55 AM
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Personally i think you can look at what defines a Celt on different levels. Firstly you could say a Celt is someone with no connection whatsoever to a Celtic country at all, but yet feels a deep affinity with that culture in their mind & heart. You could also argue that a Celt is someone with genetic roots in a Celtic land although they themselves where born in another country outside of the heritage. Closer still you could say that a Celt is a person born & brought up in a Celtic country, but i think ultimately i have to think that a Celt is someone born & brought up in Celtic country, surrounded by Celtic culture & who speaks a Celtic language. Although maybe we are all a little Celtic in our hearts. smile.gif


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