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> How Does It Work?, and why?
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Shadows 
Posted: 30-Nov-2005, 07:06 PM
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ZodiacHolly

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I am refering to the power of suggestion...

...it is used in politics, religion, schooling, etc.

In the many years I have lived I have seen the "masses" twisted and turned by the suggestions and whimes of clergy, teachers, and government leaders...

Jim Jones, Hitler, the US current administration, the modern "born again" movement, the media , and many , many more spin doctors...


It seems to me the more basic a persons beliefs are the more realistic their expectations are and the more intune they are to the universe.

What are your thoughts on this?


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Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

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Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
Religion has spoiled many a good man.

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stevenpd 
Posted: 01-Dec-2005, 01:05 PM
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I believe that it starts with a few that are looking for something that they can't explain. Someone provides the hope of fulfillment to get the ball rolling. Then a herd mentality takes over and grows only to be slowed and possibly be reversed by self-actuated individuals. Sort of like the ocean waves against the beach.

What people are looking for depends on their situation and life experiences. Life is a circle and so goes society. This does not preclude the possibility of a linear perception. A large enough circle will look like a straight line.

Jones provided a sense of spirituality to people who had no sense of one; Hitler provided answers to a dying economy; The current US administration provides retaliation for an egregious act.

Core or fundamental beliefs help guide a person through the unknown. They provide the sound board with which to bounce the unknown off of and determine the best course of action. In todays complex society it becomes easier to succumb to the "spin". Instead of a single course of action there may two or three and all three may be the most correct answer. When faced with several correct courses of action the individual is stuck with their core beliefs in determining the correct course of action. The decision will be ultimately be based on self-interest.

Spirituality in any form defies logic. There is no way to prove or disprove the existence of any god. It is all taken on faith. Being in tune with the universe is also a matter of perception and faith. The affairs of man become much more base due to the intricacies of different core beliefs and ultimately belief systems.

The power of suggestion can only sway people. It is up to the individual to determine how much they want to sway with the wind.



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-- Herbert Spencer, English Philosopher (1820-1903)
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Shadows 
Posted: 01-Dec-2005, 06:27 PM
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You make some very valid observations!

It also plays a part in the function of Magick!

One must be able to sway the mind of those who are to be influenced by your magick... this in no way means that magick is not a real thing to be dealt with, it just means that one must know how to use the power of the mind to make it work.

Any other opinions ?
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stevenpd 
Posted: 02-Dec-2005, 02:03 AM
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Influence and persuasion are two different things in my book. Influence is one sided and persuasion is mutual. To influence someone is to actively change the mind of the individual. To persuade someone's thinking is done through mutual interaction.

To change someone's mind can begin with persuasion and culminate with influence. Persuasion can relax the mind and provide for greater influence.

Whether you call it magick, psychic ability, being in tune with the universe, the force, or charisma the result is influence. Influence is a tool for those who choose to use it. As with any tool, it may be used for good or bad. Its up to the individual and their core beliefs.

I have and do believe that there are things in this universe that man may never know. There are things that man thinks he knows but is afraid of the answers and there are things that man knows but does not know how to use them.
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 05-Dec-2005, 05:48 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 01-Dec-2005, 06:27 PM)
One must be able to sway the mind of those who are to be influenced by your magick... this in no way means that magick is not a real thing to be dealt with, it just means that one must know how to use the power of the mind to make it work.

Any other opinions ?

Wow. We were just having something very like this discussion over on ThinkPotter this week. If you don't mind, I'll quote one relevant exchange. One of our members was talking about a very brief but clear vision of an uncle, long dead, in his World War I soldier's uniform, that she saw in the hospital corridor the night her father (the old soldier's nephew) died. The old soldier had also died in the same hospital years before. (This is in Australia.) She asked:

Having been summoned to that hospital because my dad was at risk might have made me unconsciously remember my great-uncle dying there? That might work as it was an emotionally charged time for me at any rate.

Though the person I saw looked like my great-uncle as I was accustomed to see him, not like the night before he died.


And I answered:

Yes, it could have been, and there's no logic or sense of time in the unconscious either. Or it really was a paranormal "visit". I can't say -- all I can say is that both possibilities may well exist. Being a common or garden psychologist and not a parapsychologist, I can tell you that there's plenty to show that people are capable of amazing feats of putting things together from bits of hope, fear and memory, completely outside of conscious awareness, and then experiencing them as though they were external stimuli. The important thing is what you take from it, or how you are affected. I believe healthy people are usually trying to comfort themselves with it, or make meaning (or at least comprehensible patterns). Or -- like a lot of other things, why does it have to be either/or? Theoretically, why could a spirit not use the ability and propensity of certain humans to do this anyway, and help it along for its own purposes? Perhaps the source in any given instance is not as important as your receptivity, your ability to experience it.


Now, we were talking about spirits, but it seems to me it would apply to the other thing as well -- exercising your will magically. Anything a human is going to experience has to come in on the operating platform of the whole extent of mind, which must ride on the "wetware" of brain. I see no reason to exclude magical occurrences from this, if they exist. If it occurs at all, it is natural, and this is our natural equipment. If there is anything that we understand less than the external, material world, it's our own inner one, even strictly from an empirical or scientific standpoint. What it takes to move from the passive or experiential level to a more active or "will-working" level, I leave to the adepts -- but if there is the one, it is not unrealistic to expect the other is possible.
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