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> Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau, Welsh National Anthem-confident enough?!
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C Dubh 
Posted: 13-May-2005, 03:11 AM
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That's right Siarls it's Irish Gaelic. I believe the term was applied to Irish outlaws in the 15thc.
I usually write the word Gaelic for Irish Gaelic & Gaidhlig for Scots Gaelic. As both words are pronounced differently.


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Bruidhinnibh Gidhlig Rium.
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WizardofOwls 
Posted: 13-May-2005, 04:53 AM
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I don't know if this is just an Americanism or if it is international, but I recall reading somewhere that, technically, Scottish Gaelic should be referred to as Gaelic and Irish Gaelic as Irish. I've never even heard the Welsh natioanl anthem (shame on me!). And no, I didn't know that Tory came from Gaelic! Very interesting!


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Sln agus beannachd,
Allen R. Alderman

'S i Alba tr mo chridhe. 'S i Gidhlig cnan m' anama.
Scotland is the land of my heart. Gaelic is the language of my soul.
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Siarls 
Posted: 13-May-2005, 08:00 AM
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Sorry, when I see the word Gaelic, I automatically assume Scots Gaelic because in Welsh=
Scots Gaelic Gaeleg (yr Alban)
Irish Gaelic Gwyddeleg

I am shocked that you of all people, Wizard, have not heard the Welsh National Anthem... http://www.wngga.org/HenWlad.html (only works if you have QuickTime).


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Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf im gwlad
Tra mr yn fur
I'r bur hoff bau
O bydded ir heniaith barhau
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gwenynen 
Posted: 13-May-2005, 05:32 PM
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Siarls, I've memorized the 1st & 2nd verses and am working on the last half of the 3rd. Bryn Terfel pronounces 'beirdd' 'bAIrdd.' Is that how you say?

There sure are difficult words, 'gwladgarwyr' for example. I can somewhat manage 'r' if it's at the beginning of a word or followed by a vowel. But I can never roll my r's in '-rdd' or '-rd' So, 'bardd' and 'hardd' are unpronounceable for me. Do you have any remedy?



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Weithiau, mae'r ateb i'n problemau o dan ein trwynau, dim ond bod angen i ni gymryd cam yn l ac edrych eto. - Stuart Kerner
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WizardofOwls 
Posted: 13-May-2005, 09:13 PM
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Thank you, Siarls, for sharing that with me! It was absolutley beautiful! Reminded me of some of the old hymns.
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Siarls 
Posted: 14-May-2005, 07:19 AM
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Just don't pronounce hardd and bardd the English-language way. A, unless it has a to bach, will always be pronounced like the A in hAt or cAt.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 18-May-2005, 07:14 PM
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I'm afraid I'm hopeless. My r's would not roll before 'd' no matter how hard I try. At least I've memorized all the verses. Now I'm ready for a rugby game in Wales!
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Siarls 
Posted: 28-May-2005, 04:54 PM
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A lot of people can't roll the Rs. I can't roll my Rs after T or D. It's increasingly acceptable to use English Rs. Just make sure that it's an English R you're pronouncing and NOT an English vowel (if you know what I mean?)

Although while watching Star Wars IV, I noticed that some of the British officers (funny how bad guys are always British in American films!) roll their Rs.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 28-May-2005, 05:46 PM
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QUOTE (Siarls @ 28-May-2005, 05:54 PM)
Just make sure that it's an English R you're pronouncing and NOT an English vowel (if you know what I mean?)


I'm afraid I don't know what you mean.

I hope rolled r's won't someday disappear from Welsh because they sound soooooo wonderful.
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Siarls 
Posted: 29-May-2005, 06:30 AM
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It won't be for a long time the rolled R leaves Welsh, if it ever does. A lot of people are proud of the rolled R. I am.

I think you should forget what I said about English vowels, etc. In British English, people tend not to pronounce Rs, so "mother" is pronounced "motha". But I remember American friends telling me that they pronounced Rs more than the British do.

What I meant though was that in English, AR is pronounced as a long A, the equivalent to the Welsh . However, the A in a Welsh AR is always pronounced like the A in cAt, despite the R. So even if you cannot roll your Rs, please do not pronounce a word like hardd as hdd.

Have you studied the "T BACH" yet? (The "little roof" above vowels)
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gwenynen 
Posted: 29-May-2005, 07:28 PM
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I'm afraid using 'cat' to show the Welsh pronunciation is confusing because Americans pronounce it differently from the English. I don't know how you can roll your r's before 'd' or 'dd' as these sounds stop r's vibration. I'm sure it's difficult to explain it by writing. And even if you showed it to me in person, I don't think I can do it. So, I accept my limitations and remember not to say 'hardd' as 'hdd'.

I learned that ^ means a long vowel sound.
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Siarls 
Posted: 30-May-2005, 03:23 PM
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In parts of Wales, they pronounce hardd as hdd!! Once you become more acquainted with Welsh, I'm sure it'll fall into place.

I feel so restricted by the net, because I am very vocal and verbal in my tutorials.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 07-Dec-2005, 10:40 AM
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I had to write about this amazing occurrence! Last night, my 12 year old daughter begged me to teach her how to sing Hen Wlad as I'm singing it all the time. I wrote down the words phonetically and helped her. To my utter delight, she could sing so well! She could even roll all the r's (even 'tra') and her ch's and ll's weren't too bad either.

She's the only one in the family with a singing voice and is often asked to sing Japanese songs at school. She is so excited she can sing a Welsh song that she's going to sing it to her class when she's practiced some more. Just think! Hen Wlad sang at a small American elementary school! (Maybe the first in the Oklahoma history!) And come to think of it, it was the first time for me to hear someone else sing it in person. It was quite fascinating. I can't imagine what I'd feel if I heard it at the Millennium Stadium!

She wanted to know the meaning too. I gave her a general translation though 'gwrol ryfelwyr' maybe a bit too much for a child. At least she knows what 'hen iaith' means.
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Antwn 
Posted: 07-Dec-2005, 01:41 PM
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I think its great your daughter is singing Hen Wlad in her school. It would be a great thing to hear Welsh sung in an American elementary school indeed. You know Gwen, you might consider teaching her Calon Lan too. Not only is that a traditional Welsh song, but its lyrics are inspiring. .....see below. The Irish/American celtic music band Solas recorded a song The Miner's Life using the tune from Calon Lan. Too bad they didn't record Calon Lan itself!

I had to chuckle when I read back to Siarls' post about the English actors rolling their R's on Star Trek (hadn't seen this thread in a while). I've noticed the same thing. I think they were probably the Shakesperian trained breed. I've noticed there seems to be an upper class tendency to roll R's among the English, though only at certain times. I remember when I saw the first Harry Potter film, all the British actors pronounced the last name "Potta" and the Rs in Harry almost had an L sound....like Hairly Potta almost.

Uh Oh, I hope I'm not getting stuck in bad pronunciation habits, bardd like cat and hat? I was saying the bar in bardd like going to a bar, not like the "bar" in baritone. Which is it?

Gwen, I've noticed that the ei as in beirdd is pronounced by some like bairdd and others like beyrdd. Also the eu in dweud is pronounced by some like dwaid and then I heard someone on Newyddion say dweyd and gwneyd.

Calon Lan

Nid wy'n gofyn bywyd moethus
Aur y byd na'i berlau mn
Gofyn rwyf am calon hapus
Calon onest, calon ln.

Cytgan:
Calon ln yn llawn daioni
Tecach yw na'r lili dlos
Does ond calon ln all ganu
Canu'r dydd a chanu'r nos.

Pe dymunwn olud bydol
Chwim adenydd iddo sydd
Golud calon ln rinweddol
Yn dwyn bythol elw fydd.

Cytgan:

Hwyr a bore fy nymuniad
Esgyn ar adenydd cn
Ar i Dduw, er mwyn fy Ngheidwad
Roddi imi galon ln.

Cytgan:


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Yr hen Gymraeg i mi,
Hon ydyw iaith teimladau,
Ac adlais i guriadau
Fy nghalon ydyw hi
--- Mynyddog
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Mihangel 
Posted: 08-Dec-2005, 01:27 AM
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Gwenynen
You must be so proud of your daughter. Your story gave me a tingle up the spine and made me homesick at the same time!

Michael


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If you talk to a man in a language he understands, that goes to his head.
if you talk to him in his language, that goes to his heart

Nelson Mandela
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