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> Croeso I Gymru, Mutations...and grammar!
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Siarls 
Posted: 31-May-2005, 05:00 PM
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I'll see if I come across Dr Gruffydd. He was in the campus cafe today with my personal tutor, Dr Rhys and another very admired lecturer, Dr James.

Y Geiriadur Mawr is fairly useful and recommended because not only does it have an English translation of the word, it has a Welsh explanation of the word. It also lists of words in common, for example, "Fruits" and then beneath it is listed all the fruit in Welsh with English translation and vice versa.
It also has place names and personal names. I use Y Geiriadur Mawr almost daily. Although I am a little offended because the University of Wales allows English dictionaries into our exams and not Welsh dictionaries and I was sitting Italian literature this morning without a clue of how to say trosiad in English.


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Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf im gwlad
Tra mr yn fur
I'r bur hoff bau
O bydded ir heniaith barhau
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Siarls 
Posted: 20-Jun-2005, 05:42 AM
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It's quite appropriate to put your corrections here Austaff because it is mainly mutations you have to work on. Don't dispair though - mutations are easy once you get the hang of them - they accentuate the poetry of the Welsh language and you speak Welsh very well otherwise. However, it is the misuse of mutations that will always give a way a non-native or non-fluent speaker.

Beth am postio y cywiro ateb yn yr edau Croeso i Gymru, neu e bost hi i fy. Dw i agor i awgrymiadau. Beth wneud y eraill meddwl? Dydw y ddim eisiau i beidio y fwrdd 'ma o weithio.

Beth am bostio yr ateb cywir yn yr edau Croeso i Gymru, neu (ei) e-bostio fe imi. Dw i ar agor i awgrymiadau. [I'd rather you said this at this point, gwneud in place of bod is getting a bit ahead of yourself at this stage, I feel:] Beth ydy'r eraill yn meddwl? Dw i ddim eisiau peidio'r bwrdd ma o weithio.

How do you feel about this? Anything need clarity?
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austaff 
Posted: 21-Jun-2005, 12:18 AM
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Siarls

Diolch Siarls mae hynny'n wych..Fydda i ddysgu lawer o treigliadau y ffordd 'ma gobeithio

could i have also said here 'na wych instead of mae hynny'n wych? It is very kind of you to help us out this way as all of us have been learning welsh by ourselves so it is great that you will give up some of your time this way it is greatly appreciated believe me thumbs_up.gif

Feel free to pick holes anytime it is the only way to learn biggrin.gif


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A fo ben bid bont
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Siarls 
Posted: 21-Jun-2005, 06:32 PM
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'Na wych is excellent. It's very idiomatic. I say it all the time. It's a very Southern expression though and therefore considered colloquial, not Standard Welsh at all. Of course, this means "na" can be applied to almost any adjective as the English "how".

Examples:
'Na hyfryd - how lovely
'Na ni - there we are
'Na lwcus - how lucky
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gwenynen 
Posted: 26-Jun-2005, 06:01 PM
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I'm continuing my post in 'Welsh literature.'

Let me quote a few lines from the book:
Yna roedd y capten yn siarad - yn Saesneg - unwaith eto. 'Wel, pwy sy am ynuno 'r criw?' Syrthiodd ei lygad ar gorff mawr Abram Tomos a Barti yn ei ymyl. 'Beth amdanoch chi'ch dau?' gofynnodd. 'Dim diolch yn fawr, Capten,'meddai Barti, yn Gymraeg! 'Wel! Wel! Cymro wyt ti, iefe?' Yntau hefyd yn Gymraeg yn awr. 'Ie,' meddai Barti, 'dau Gymro - o Sir Benfro.' Agorodd y capten ei lygaid led y pen, a chwaraeai gwn fach o gwmpas ei wefusau. --- "Y Mr yn eu Gwaed" by T. Llew Jones (pp. 44 - 45)

What does 'led y pen' mean, Siarls? T Llew used it in other pages too. Also what's 'yntau'?

I'll try to do my best to translate for non-Welsh speakers. I may be wrong:
Then the capten was speaking - in English - again. 'Well, who wants to join the crew?' He lowered his eyes on the big form of Abram Tomos and Barti near him. 'What about you two?' asked him. 'No thank you, Capten,' said Barti, in Welsh! 'Well, Well, you're Welshmen, is it?' now in Welsh also. 'Yes,' said Barti, 'two Welshmen from Pembrokeshire.' The capten opened his eyes (led y pen) and a small smile played on his lips.


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Weithiau, mae'r ateb i'n problemau o dan ein trwynau, dim ond bod angen i ni gymryd cam yn l ac edrych eto. - Stuart Kerner
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austaff 
Posted: 27-Jun-2005, 01:00 AM
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Sounds a funny book Gwenynen did you buy or hire them from a library
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gwenynen 
Posted: 27-Jun-2005, 08:42 AM
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I bought it through the internet. There is no book in Welsh in my small local library. Even English books on Welsh themes are rare. Besides, I want a copy of my own so that I can underline and write notes all over!

I need to correct my translation: The captain (not capten as in Welsh!) says, "Well, well, you're a Welshman, is it?" -- as it's "wyt ti?"
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Siarls 
Posted: 01-Jul-2005, 10:56 AM
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If you want to say, "I would like to", then Byddwn i'n hoffi is acceptable, but the concise form of the verb is far more popular and easier. Simply use Hoffwn i followed by a soft mutation.

e.g. Hoffwn i glywed Gwenynen ganu'r Hen Wlad

Most cash points in Wales now ask before you enter your PIN:
"Hoffech chi ddefnyddio Gymraeg?"
"-Hoffwn"
"-Na Hoffwn"
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Siarls 
Posted: 02-Jul-2005, 09:50 AM
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The past tense can sometimes be quite difficult in Welsh.

However, if you want to say that someone did something when whist they were young, it's the same as English. Past simple (called the preterite in English and simply as the gorffennol in Welsh) followed by the imperfect/amherffaith.

E.g. My son learned to play piano when he was young.
Dysgodd fy mab chwarae'r piano pryd yr oedd yn ifanc.

The endings for the preterite/gorffennol tense are very simple in Welsh, it's usually the verb stems one must get used to.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 02-Jul-2005, 10:56 AM
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1. I'm not sure the construction after pryd - pryd yr oedd yn ifanc. Can you say "pryd (or pan?) roedd e'n ifanc"?

2. I was taught 'canu'r piano' for play the piano. Is 'chwarae' used also?

3. Is 'cymryd' as well as 'para' used for duration of time too?



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Siarls 
Posted: 02-Jul-2005, 05:32 PM
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I think canu'r piano is correct in fact, I may well be using an anglicism. I think it's a shame in fact that anglicisms have become so common in Welsh. Let me ask my friend who is a professional piano player - in fact, he plays the organ for the Welsh chapel in Pontlliw (Austaff will know Pontlliw!)

"Pan oedd yn ifanc". Hmm... sounds much better in Standard Welsh, but when I say it aloud - I feel very formal and literary, almost like a book. I must admit, I'm a little sketchy on the pryd y. Pan is never used here in the Lliw Valley - my friends and I talked about it once - my organ playing friend had never heard of the word pan before!

I'm very impressed with you today, Gwenynen. I'm unsure about this cymryd and para. I must admit that I didn't realise para was a word - I thought it was a spoken version of parhau, although I know see from http://www.geiriadur.net that it seems to be an acceptable synonym for parhau. Once again, I am fearing that I am using anglicisms. Although that being said, I use a lot of Welshisms in my English!!!!! Let me talk with my friends. I'll try and bring them on here with me at some point.
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Siarls 
Posted: 06-Jul-2005, 05:14 AM
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Well, I have not spoken Welsh in over a week. My Welsh-speaking friends and I just don't seem to be free at the same times. It's still on my mind these questions though, Gwenynen.
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Siarls 
Posted: 06-Jul-2005, 05:17 AM
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The main thing that struck me about your grammar today Austaff, is that you're unaware of how to say that I in Welsh. I don't want to correct everything and dishearten you, but this is fairly important.

For the time being, use the Standard Welsh version fy mod i'n.
Therefore,
fy mod i'n Gymro that I am Welsh
Mae fy ngwraig yn dweud fy mod i'n siarad Cymraeg my wife says that I speak Welsh
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gwenynen 
Posted: 06-Jul-2005, 09:00 AM
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I've seen "fy mod i'n" used omitting "fy." Could you give us other frequently used variations that learners may use?

Does anyone else in your family speak Welsh, Siarls?
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Siarls 
Posted: 06-Jul-2005, 09:05 AM
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Yeh, all my mother's side speak Welsh, including my brothers. But we've lapsed into English recently! And I barely see them either.

Yes, versions of "fy mod i'n" in the South include:

mod i'n
fy mod yn
bod fi'n
bo fi'n

Is-gymalau (subordinate clauses) can be quite awkward in Welsh. How does everyone feel about them?
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