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> Croeso I Gymru, Mutations...and grammar!
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gwenynen 
Posted: 11-Mar-2006, 04:52 PM
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Wel, gallen ni ddechrau cymdeithas hen ddysgwyr! laugh.gif Ac eithrio Siarls, wrth gwrs. Ond ydyni'n awchus. Dyna'r beth pwysig! "Late but in Earnest"


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We could start an old learners' society! Except Siarls, of course. But we're earger. That's the important thing! "Late but in Earnest"


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Weithiau, mae'r ateb i'n problemau o dan ein trwynau, dim ond bod angen i ni gymryd cam yn l ac edrych eto. - Stuart Kerner
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Siarls 
Posted: 11-Mar-2006, 08:10 PM
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Yes, for me - pity and shame are the same thing. I found it a little difficult to work out your surprise, but I'm beginning to see the difference and am now considering the options in Welsh. However, in this case - most definitely the same thing for a Welsh ear.

I think Welsh learning is most common among adults in Wales too. Welsh is regarded as a bit unfashionable amongst the younger. Like my 15 year old brother who declared to the entire family the other day whilst Mae Hen Wlad Fy Nhadau was being sung on the television that he did not care about Wales at all and felt no connection to the Welsh Language or our national identity. He plays computer games with his friends and American children over the internet so is up to the earlier hours of the morning waiting for American children to get home from school and come online.

I feel that this "uncool" Welsh is thanks to archaic S4C, Radio Cymru and strict middle-aged female Welsh teachers!! My Welsh-speaking friends and I were coming up with ideas like a Welsh Top of the Pops music programme, but sometimes those in charge of Welsh media associate Welsh Language with the traditional cultural connections like the chapel and farming too much. Whereas, computers and pop music are the "in thing".


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Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf im gwlad
Tra mr yn fur
I'r bur hoff bau
O bydded ir heniaith barhau
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gwenynen 
Posted: 11-Mar-2006, 10:25 PM
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QUOTE (Siarls @ 11-Mar-2006, 08:10 PM)
Welsh is regarded as a bit unfashionable amongst the younger.

Dyna drueni yn wir!! I believe they ought to teach the Welsh children the Welsh history from the Wales's point of view. It's simply fascinating and never seizes to amaze me. Then you can't avoid becoming enthusiastic about the Welsh language.
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Antwn 
Posted: 12-Mar-2006, 12:47 PM
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QUOTE (Siarls @ 11-Mar-2006, 08:10 PM)
I think Welsh learning is most common among adults in Wales too. Welsh is regarded as a bit unfashionable amongst the younger.

Isn't that usually the way it is with teenagers? What did I care about national traditions, history or ancestry at 15? I remember riding my bike around with friends and waiting eagerly for the next Beatles record to come out, but if I were that age now, I might just as easily be a videogame addict too. Technology is very seductive. I like to think I'd be a Welsh learning teenager though smile.gif

The upside is that young people will get older and their interests will also shift. If there's one thing constant its change, isn't that the old saying?

Yeah you're right Gwen - late but in earnest.


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Yr hen Gymraeg i mi,
Hon ydyw iaith teimladau,
Ac adlais i guriadau
Fy nghalon ydyw hi
--- Mynyddog
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austaff 
Posted: 12-Mar-2006, 09:10 PM
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QUOTE (Antwn @ 11-Mar-2006, 01:54 PM)
Austaff, you're doing Dyfal Donc right?

Thanks Antwn like us all we are getting better each day Gwen Michael and I are all learning with Dyfal Donc I reckeo in 20 years we will have mastered the language.

My youngest son was 5 when we first came to Australia so you would think that he would lean towards Australia, but he is parochially welsh which I find amusing his older brother though sits on the fence.

I have found too that welsh people away from wales and living in other countries seem more enthusiastic and loyal about Wales and welshness than they would have been if the still lived in Wales


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A fo ben bid bont
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gwenynen 
Posted: 13-Mar-2006, 11:11 AM
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Yes, Austaff, people tend to take privileges for granted.
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Antwn 
Posted: 13-Mar-2006, 05:55 PM
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True enough Gwen - along with the grass is always greener syndrome.

Yeah I hear ya Austaff.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 14-Mar-2006, 10:31 AM
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Wel Antwn, mae glaswellt yn fwy gwyrdd dim ond yn Nghymru yn fy marn i. smile.gif

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For me the grass is greener only in Wales.
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Antwn 
Posted: 14-Mar-2006, 05:52 PM
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Ie! Yn ol yr hyn a welaf Gwen, dyna'n amlwg iawn amdanat ti!

Yes from what I can see Gwen, that's very obvious about you!
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gwenynen 
Posted: 20-Mar-2006, 02:21 PM
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Ydy "siwr o fod" yn golygu "probably"? Roeddwn i wedi credu bod hwn yn golygu "to be sure".
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Siarls 
Posted: 21-Mar-2006, 06:06 AM
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shwr o fod
siwr o fod
sicr o fod
mean "probably". I can see the confusion - we have come across it before. It is highly idiomatic. It can be awkward to use, as well... I would personally avoid using it amidst a sentence, keeping it to either the beginning or end of a sentence, e.g.

I will probably see you tomorrow
Shwr o fod, byddaf dy weld di yfory

Byddaf dy weld di yfory, shwr o fod.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 21-Mar-2006, 10:19 AM
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Diolch Siarls. Dw i wedi gwneud camgymeriadau ofnadwy o'r blaen wrth credu bod "siwr o fod" yn golygu "to be sure" poster_oops.gif O wel, dw i'n gwybod nawr.

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Thanks Siarls. I've made awful mistakes before, believeing "siwr o fod" meant "to be sure." Oh, well, I know now.
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Siarls 
Posted: 21-Mar-2006, 06:06 PM
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No worries, it's close isn't it?! Bod yn shwr means "to be sure", so it's very similar and a very understandable mistake.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 24-Mar-2006, 04:59 PM
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Des i o hyd i rywbeth da i ddysgwyr. Edrychwch:
"Rhaid ei fod wedi cysgu wedyn," - "Tn ar y Comin" gan T Llew Jones
"Rhaid ei bod wedi cysgu beth," - "Te yn y Grug" gan Kate Roberts

These are good examples for this form, "one must have done something." Interestingly, both authors said almost the same thing. And since T Llew is talking about a boy, and Robers about a girl, you can even see how 'bod' changes.

Many say reading books is an excellent way to learn another language (in addition to studying textbooks, of course) and I agree. It takes time but worth every minute. smile.gif
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gwenynen 
Posted: 29-Mar-2006, 10:06 AM
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I've come across several times with "A chan fod...." Why does 'gan' takes an aspirate mutation? Or is it a special usage in more literal form?
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