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> Croeso I Gymru, Mutations...and grammar!
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gwenynen 
Posted: 08-Feb-2006, 10:03 AM
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As often happens, confusion seems to arise from difference between written and spoken language as much as from various dialects (so hard on distant learners!) O, wel, yet we must press on! Diolch am dy gymorth, Siarls. smile.gif


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Weithiau, mae'r ateb i'n problemau o dan ein trwynau, dim ond bod angen i ni gymryd cam yn l ac edrych eto. - Stuart Kerner
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Antwn 
Posted: 08-Feb-2006, 05:41 PM
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Cytuno'n llwyr - daliwch ati Gwen.....and I know you will. One must do the best one can given the circumstances.

Diolch oddi wrtha fi hefyd Siarls


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Yr hen Gymraeg i mi,
Hon ydyw iaith teimladau,
Ac adlais i guriadau
Fy nghalon ydyw hi
--- Mynyddog
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Siarls 
Posted: 09-Feb-2006, 02:42 PM
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If I were to suggest one for you to use, I think I'd go for the "dy fod yn" option because it gets you into the habit of good Welsh.


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Gwlad, gwlad, pleidiol wyf im gwlad
Tra mr yn fur
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O bydded ir heniaith barhau
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gwenynen 
Posted: 18-Feb-2006, 03:53 PM
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Diolch Siarls am dy gyngor. Mae cwestiynau da fi eto:

1. swta/cwta - they almost don't sound like Welsh! Are they a dialect? Are they interchangeable
meaning 'abrupt'? May learners safely use them?

2. I understand that (ei) after a vowel becomes ('i). In the following sentence, why (haeddu
ei) isn't written as (haeddu'i) while (difetha'i) is shortened to ('i)?
"Roedd hi'n haeddu ei difetha'i hun."
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Siarls 
Posted: 19-Feb-2006, 05:41 AM
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1. Yes, learners may use them, but they have feminine forms: sota/cota

2. Well, as you know, in Welsh, U sounds like the English EE and is the same sound (in the South anyway) as the Welsh I. Therefore haeddu'i would be too difficult to say. That's why "to him/to her/to them" is "i'w" and not "i'i/i'u"

However, with verbs, the 'i is not obligatory to Standard Welsh, but rather it's a stylistic choice.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 19-Feb-2006, 10:22 PM
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Diolch Siarls! smile.gif

Un cwestiwn arall: "I decided to go out." would be "Penderfynais i fynd allan." I think. How would you say "I decided not to go out."? "Penderfynais i beidio mynd allan."?
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Siarls 
Posted: 20-Feb-2006, 11:53 AM
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Hmm good question.
That is a good translation actually, Gwen. Well done.

I think I'd say "penderfynais na fyddwn yn mynd mas" but yours is good... I like it. Technically, you should say beidio mynd allan, but the way you said it is in fact how people would use it. Prepositions are badly used by natives.

In the South, we say mas, not allan. It is actually the word [i]maes[/b], but as you know, in the South, well Carmarthenshire anyway, people do not like AE, EI, OI sounds etc. That's why we say:

Cymrg, not Cymraeg or
dwd rather than dweud or
'rdd instead of 'roedd
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gwenynen 
Posted: 24-Feb-2006, 06:13 PM
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Diolch Siarls. I haven't read your post till now as I haven't been notified (this has happened a lot.) I should've checked here anyway. I should stick to the southern Welsh as that's what I've been learning. But since I don't have the "feel" of the language, I sometimes mix different dialects without realizing.
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Siarls 
Posted: 24-Feb-2006, 07:56 PM
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And there's problem with that, really. Especially seen as you are a learner the other side of the Atlantic! It's just fantastic you're learning Welsh and the miss-match of dialects shouldn't confuse natives as it doesn't affect the Welsh itself. (Make sense? I have a Spanish friend Marcos who speaks American English with a slight American twang, so you can't figure out whether he's just a very laid-back American or a high-standard foreigner. What's more strange is that his father is English and his mother is Spanish. No American at all! The my Mexican friend Felipe actually has a Welsh twang when he speaks English and you'd never guess he's foreign).
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gwenynen 
Posted: 09-Mar-2006, 04:03 PM
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You taught us how to say "It's a pity that you...." in Beginner'r Welsh today. How do you say "It's a shame.."? For example, "It's a shame that the media is often biased."?
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austaff 
Posted: 09-Mar-2006, 10:46 PM
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I would write it thus Gwen so i would be interested to see how far wrong I am So over to you Siarls

drueni fod y cyfryngau sydd tueddol yn aml






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Siarls 
Posted: 10-Mar-2006, 09:50 AM
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close, austaff. the "drueni" is good - very idiomatic.

drueni fod y cyfryngau'n dueddol yn aml.

there was no need for the sydd, you can have bod and sydd together. they mean the same thing, but sydd is emphatic (it emphasises the word that precedes it).

normally, you would need "dyna drueni" or "mae'n drueni", but austaff's exclusion of the word BUT inclusion of the mutation was very good.
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gwenynen 
Posted: 10-Mar-2006, 10:36 AM
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Diolch i chi'ch dau. Then "dyna drueni" will cover both "pity" and "shame"?
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austaff 
Posted: 10-Mar-2006, 10:00 PM
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welllll I must be getting better its finally sinking in to this old brain of mine lol laugh.gif
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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Mar-2006, 01:54 PM
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And you're writing alot in just Welsh now too Austaff! Congrats! I think that's great. Starting out with the mutation of tueni was brilliant indeed. Way to go.

I know how you feel about getting older - I'm not the youngest rooster in the barn either. My secret is fairly simple, to keep learning keep caffeinated.

Austaff, you're doing Dyfal Donc right?
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