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Shadows 
Posted: 22-Jan-2005, 12:27 AM
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Considering all the "New testament" scriptures what was the message Jesu was trying to get across to his followers.

I am not looking for bible quotes or speculations... just the answer to what was the message that was to be spread.



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celtica 
Posted: 22-Jan-2005, 03:32 AM
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For me the message was very simple : love each other and you'll be in the good way ! The rest was to try to convince people to do it...
I try to apply that, that's why I don't need to belong to a church or another, there are here to help people (or they should, but I'm not sure they always remind the initial message), I don't need help ... wink.gif


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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 22-Jan-2005, 08:45 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 22-Jan-2005, 12:27 AM)
Considering all the "New testament" scriptures what was the message Jesu was trying to get across to his followers.

I am not looking for bible quotes or speculations... just the answer to what was the message that was to be spread.

Repentance and Salvation through the example of his Life, Death, and Resurrection.


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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln

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dragonboy3611 
Posted: 22-Jan-2005, 10:59 AM
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The message of many relgions is one in the same... the message of love, peace, harmony, joy...etc... That's why it's so darn stupid that they fight, when in the long run, they are going for the same thing!


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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 26-Jan-2005, 06:43 AM
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Shadows, you say you don't want Bible quotes, well you don't want serious answers then do you?

The Bible claims to be God's authoritive text, the final answer in all matters of teaching. That claim is well supported by history, science, astronomy and any other test it is put to.

If I were to answer your question without bible quotes then you would have only MY words, and they are worth nothing on their own.

It is better to go to the Source for a true answer, that source is the Bible.

If you don't want to hear it's words then you are not ready for the answer.


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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 26-Jan-2005, 07:03 AM
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QUOTE (dragonboy3611 @ 23-Jan-2005, 01:59 AM)
The message of many relgions is one in the same... the message of love, peace, harmony, joy...etc... That's why it's so darn stupid that they fight, when in the long run, they are going for the same thing!

Not so my friend, I have studied the teachings of many religions and adopted their beliefs in times past, and while there are similarities, they are not the same.

The 'hoped-for' outcome may be the same, as you rightly put it "love, peace, harmony, joy...etc."
However, the means or method employed to achieve that is very different, certainly in the Way of Jesus Christ.

Solomon, inspired by God wrote "Pro 16:25 There is a way that seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death. "

So we have a duty to follow the right way set down by the Creator, not any path that we might fancy.

Again, "For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,)
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him. "1Co 8:6

So the way to peace love and harmony for those who follow Christ is to trust and obey His commandments.
One of those commandments says that we should worship no other gods but the God of the Bible.

The way of Christ is the only way as Jesus said Himself .. Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Those that follow that way will find true and lasting love, peace, harmony, joy...etc
Those that fight and kill in the name of Christianity disqualify themselves and are not true Christians.

I hope this is an adequate answer for you.


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dundee 
Posted: 26-Jan-2005, 10:13 AM
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i agree with ya tassiecelt...

the message of the new testement is quite simply.

WE are ALL sinners, saved by grace through FAITH in the death on the cross and ressurection from the grave of Jesus Christ.
Justified by Faith!
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ps without using scripture romans 3 and 4 give a pretty could account. wink.gif


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Shadows 
Posted: 28-Jan-2005, 11:18 PM
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OK now I am going to ask this:

If a person follows the rules set forth in the new testament are they not ignoring the laws that the "Old" set down?

Jesu did say he was the "new word....."

Jesu was change, with a twist away from the old laws... no longer "eye for an eye...etc. "

Does this not show that beliefs can grow and change with the times of man and their relationship with god?
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Shadows 
Posted: 28-Jan-2005, 11:52 PM
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I am going to discontinue my comments on this topic... I want to see what others say....

In consideration of the beliefs of those that post in " Kirk and Chapel" I might be recommending moving this to the other forum on religion, science...etc.
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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 29-Jan-2005, 07:02 AM
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All 66 books that form the Bible as we know it today are inspired by the One True God, they were all given by God for our teaching and learning.

Some bits were especially relevant to Adam and Eve, others pre-Noah, some to Israel and some to the Church after The Lord Jesus Christ returned to heaven.
All is relevant to the Children of the Word. If there were any changes in law, they can only be made by the One Who wrote the law in the first place.
Since Our God the Creator is a loving and just Person then I have no problem with anything He does. All He required of us is our love and obedience, since He made us and made the ultimate sacrifice to redeem us (buy us back), that is the least He deserves.

To reject that love is far serious than we will ever understand. It's a very serious choice we make when we choose who to follow. It's not a game of 'which guru to read today', it's a matter of eternal life and death.
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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 29-Jan-2005, 07:03 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 29-Jan-2005, 02:52 PM)
I am going to discontinue my comments on this topic... I want to see what others say....

In consideration of the beliefs of those that post in " Kirk and Chapel" I might be recommending moving this to the other forum on religion, science...etc.

The post is fine where it is.
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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 29-Jan-2005, 12:10 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 28-Jan-2005, 11:18 PM)
OK now I am going to ask this:

If a person follows the rules set forth in the new testament are they not ignoring the laws that the "Old" set down?

Jesu did say he was the "new word....."

Jesu was change, with a twist away from the old laws... no longer "eye for an eye...etc. "

Does this not show that beliefs can grow and change with the times of man and their relationship with god?

Jesus was the fulfillment of the law. (I'll have to use scripture to make my point, I can't do it any other way, after all, if we were discussing George Washington would you deny me the use of history books or his own quotes?):

Paul wrote in his epistle to the Galatians:

Galatians3:21-26 (KJV)

21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

And in the The Gospel according to John:

John 1:17(KJV)

For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

And finally in the Lord's own words, from the Gospel according to Matthew:

Matthew 5:17 (KJV)

17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.



Finally a quote from Charles Spurgeon on why salvation is by Grace, as provided by Christ, over our own exertions to keep the law.

The squirrel in his wire cage continually in motion but making no progress reminds me of my own self-righteous efforts toward salvation, but the little creature is never half so wearied by his exertions as I was by mine. The poor scavenger in Paris trying to earn a living by picking dirty rags out of the kennel succeeds far better than I did in my attempts to obtain comfort by my own works. Dickens's cab-horse, which was only able to stand because it was never taken out of the shafts, was strength and beauty itself compared with my starving hopes propped up with resolutions and regulations. Wretches condemned to the galleys in the days of the old French kings, whose only reward for incessant toils was the lash of the keeper, were in a more happy plight than I when under legal bondage. Slavery in mines where the sun never shines must be preferable to the miseries of a soul goaded by an awakened conscience to seek salvation by its own merits. Some of the martyrs were shut up in a dungeon, and I remember the spiritual counterpart of that prison-house. Iron chains are painful enough, but what pain there is when the iron enters the soul! Tell us not of the writhings of the wounded and dying on the battlefield. Some of us, when our hearts were riddled by the artillery of the law, would have counted wounds and death a happy exchange. Oh blessed Savior, how blissful was the hour when all this horrid midnight of the soul was changed into the dawning of pardoning love!

-- Charles Haddon Spurgeon, The Quotable Spurgeon, (Wheaton: Harold Shaw Publishers, Inc, 1990)



MacE smile.gif Romans 5:8 (KJV) But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.
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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 31-Jan-2005, 01:49 AM
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QUOTE
after all, if we were discussing George Washington would you deny me the use of history books or his own quotes?):


Good point Steve, as was the rest of your post. I am in total agreement with you.
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Shamalama 
Posted: 02-Feb-2005, 08:55 AM
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This one is actually very easy (for me, that is).

Jesus was with His disciples, just before He would be criucified. His disciples knew something was different, that something was about to happen. They began questioning Jesus about a great many things.

Jesus said to them, "A new commandment I give to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this all men will know that you are My disciples, if you have love for one another."

This message is repeated throughout the Gospels. Jesus also prefaced this commandment earlier in His life:

A bunch of Pharisees got together and tried to legally "trip up" Jesus' words. One of them, a lawyer (go figure), asked Him a question, testing Him, "Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Moasic Law?"

Going far past the original Ten Commandments, the Law was now hundreds of pages long (all man-made laws). Jesus said, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind. This is the great and foremost commandment. The second greatest is like it, in that you shall love your neighbor as you do yourself. On these two commandments depend the whole Law and the Prophets."

There it is to me. Love God, and love one another in the same way that Jesus loved his disciples. In doing so the rest of the world will say, "Wow, I want some of that kind of love", and the Word of God will spread to the ends of the earth.

Jesus was also the Fulfillment of the Moasic Law. Jesus was also the Redeemer of Sin.

Jesus was a change, a twist away from the old laws. That was not to show that God's will can grow and change, but rather to show us that man cannot live according to God's law - the only way is through Jesus. It was an object lesson for us, not an evolution of God.

Yes, the message of many religions is one in the same: love, peace, harmony, joy, etc. But you cannot confuse that with Christianity, the belief that Christ was and is God's son, a distinct part of the Holy Trinity. That's where the difference in faiths occur. Even Muslims believe that Christ lived, just that He was simply a prophet and nothing more.

But when things get confusing, just go back to Square One: love God (which will include His Son Jesus), and love others. To be a Christian is to walk as Jesus walked, which is that of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. This message was to be spread far and wide, yes, but only after you, yourself, take Jesus into yourself.


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Tassiecelt 
Posted: 03-Feb-2005, 06:47 AM
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Nicely said Shamalama, I am in agreement with that.

I would only add what even some churches seem to forget, and that is that God is calling us TO His love, but also to turn from our sins. The word "repent" means literally "to turn around", it was once used in the military, soldiers marching in one direction were commanded to re....pent! they turned to march in the opposite dierection.

"Act 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. "

"Act 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; "

"Act 17:30 And the times of this ignorance God winked at (overlooks); but now commandeth all men every where to repent: "

When God's love first shone on me I saw that I was in darkness, I followed other gods, practised the occult and witchcraft, and while I thought I was on a 'spiritual' path - in fact I was lost in darkness and ignorance of the only truth path that leads to God.

So I was compelled by His love to repent from the heart. Only then were my eyes opened to the truth and I began to learn.

It really is like being born again.

So, my friend shadows, if you seek the truth, and I'm sure you do, you will find it only in the Way of Jesus Christ. You need to turn from your ways also and submit your life to the One Who can really show you the way, His Way and not your own.
The path you are on is leading in the wrong direction, not according to me, but according to the Lord Jesus by His own words.

Then....you will have the answers to your questions. May God bless you in this.
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