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> The Reason Christians Believe In God, Maybe just 1 opinion reason...
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 26-Nov-2005, 02:15 PM
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QUOTE (Sonee @ 06-Nov-2005, 07:36 PM)
Also, I saw a documentary this afternoon that said the book of Esther wasn't even one of the dead sea scrolls that the bible allegedly derived from. If that is the case, where did it come from then? It, evidentally, doesn't mention God once in any of its verses and that is a point of contention with many scholars. They feel it was added later, perhaps from some other document from the era that really isn't related at all to the bible.

I have studied Esther in depth, and you're right: it does not mention God the way He is mentioned in a lot of other books in the Bible. Esther is nonetheless one of the most effective books in showing how God is actively involved in our lives; Esther had the sense to recognize opportunities God sent her way even tho sometimes she couldn't see how far-reaching her actions would be. Thank goodness ole Uncle was there saying 'do it, girl'! Because Esther has courage and a desire to follow God's will for her life, she ended up being in the position to literally save the lives of every Jew in her country.



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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 26-Nov-2005, 02:25 PM
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QUOTE (Sonee @ 06-Nov-2005, 07:36 PM)
How do we know that Matthew, Mark, Luke and John actually wrote those? I could write something as of I was someone important from this era, say Princess Diana, bury it for a few thousand years and the people who found it would have no way of knowing if she actually wrote it or not.

Those boys were eye-witnesses, and my attorney daddy always said there's nothing better than an eye-witness account! Don't miss 1st and 2nd Peter, a follower of Christ from very early on... and also James and Jude, books written by Jesus' half-brothers! The book of James is underlined more than any in my Bible - its one of my favorite books of them all.

The books written by Matthew, Mark, Luke and John, James and Jude were written by men who actually in the presence of Jesus during His time on earth; as such, they were kept safe and shared thru copies and are as reliable as an account written by Prince William would be after both he and his mom are long gone. What to me proves their authenticity is how they reiterate and restate the same basis Christian teachings and truths. This is the test of all the books of the Bible, really, that they confirm and present the same message: God loves us.

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Raven 
Posted: 12-Dec-2005, 11:58 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 24-Nov-2005, 07:56 AM)
I would like to remind you that the "bible" was assembled some 1000 years after the life it honors . I am not refering to the Yiddish books as such, just what the modern christian religion calls the "bible".

It was around 1080 or latter, I have to go back and look, that a bunch of clerics got together and decided what would be doctrine and what to leave out.

As for the Yiddish parts, they are particular to those that believe in that religion... "Yahweh's choosen people"... Baptists, Unitarians, Presbitirians, Catholics, etc. where not even there...

I know that you wrote the Bible was "assembled" 1000 years after the life it honors. This makes it sound like the information contained is somehow unreliable.

Just to Clarify that all the letters and books that comprise it were written with in 70 years of the death of Jesus, (most much sooner)the writers of the First Four Books (Gospels) all eye witnesses to his life death and resurrection. (or at least after resurrection as no one actually saw the event itself smile.gif) The fact that they were assembled as a collection at a later date has no bearing on their reliability.

This short time frame means there was ample opportunity to dispute the writings there in by contemporaries who were also alive at the time, which by all accounts there were disputes (see books written by Paul who was one of the main skeptics)

As far as all the other people not mentioned in those Yiddish documents that you referred to (Baptists and company), those documents all point to the coming Messiah who is full filled in the collection of assembled letters and books written in the first century, which allows for the non-Jewish people being grafted into the original vine and these writings being applicable to them as well.

One more point on the aforementioned works of antiquity. The Books commonly referred to as the New and Old Testament are the undisputed 2 most reliable works of antiquity as affirmed by scholars of all persuasions (Christian or not Christian) With the New Testament works coming in first for a variety of reasons.

I have more if anyone is interested and documentation if needed (i.e. reasons scholars agree on the undisputed accuracy of these works)

Peace

Mikel


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Raven 
Posted: 12-Dec-2005, 12:15 PM
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QUOTE (dragonboy3611 @ 20-Jan-2005, 08:30 PM)
Wow, thank you everyone for your information. This really helps me and to keeping with believing in my faith, thank thank thank! tongue.gif tongue.gif

Hey Dragon Boy,

Good thread questions an points.

Just a thought for consideration,

You can not see feel or touch the air you breath and yet you believe it exists because you can see it's effects.

The same with light, you can only see the reflection or effect of light.

We can not see, feel or touch God, but we can see, feel, and touch his handi work, In addition we can see his effects.

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Mikel
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 04-Jan-2006, 09:31 PM
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There was a Jewish historian named Josephus who wrote an incredibly detailed account of Jewish history, and HE even mentions Jesus... John the Baptist too, which I thought was interesting. Here is a guy with nothing to gain by mentioning Jesus who turned the traditional Jewish world on its collective ear with his teachings, and he mentions Him anyway! The book is in my church library, and I checked it out for awhile to see what the guy had to say. Fascinating!
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Raven 
Posted: 06-Jan-2006, 10:35 AM
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I have read some of Joesephus's works also and I find this fascinating.

For me it is just as the Bible says,"Faith is the evidence of things not seen, the substance of things hoped for.."

This ties in to what I posted earlier. My faith is based on the evidence and a lot of the evidence while tangible is not something that you can hold in your hand or carry arround in a box.

Mikel
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 10-Jan-2006, 12:59 PM
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QUOTE (Raven @ 06-Jan-2006, 10:35 AM)
For me it is just as the Bible says,"Faith is the evidence of things not seen, the substance of things hoped for.."

This ties in to what I posted earlier. My faith is based on the evidence and a lot of the evidence while tangible is not something that you can hold in your hand or carry arround in a box.

Mikel

Mmmmm, that triggered a dcTalk memory! Who else recalls their song 'Mind's Eye'??

"Faith is the evidence of things unseen
People tell me that You're just a dream
They don't know You the way that I do
You're the one I live to pursue..."

Ah, I miss that band! They were superb...

SB
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reddrake79 
Posted: 03-Feb-2006, 04:16 PM
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I miss DC talk also.

! minor point, i am jumping in the middle and apologize if it has already been pointed out, But the Bible that we look at was not derived from the dead sea scrolls. These are 1 set of copies of the books that make up the bible. 1 of the most important books ever written, weather or not you believe it. it would make sense for copies to be running around and shared. These copies would eventuly get tattered and torn, maybe even book missing. My first bible that was given to me no longer contains the book of matthew, because it was so used.


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Raven 
Posted: 06-Feb-2006, 02:48 PM
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QUOTE (Siobhan Blues @ 10-Jan-2006, 12:59 PM)
QUOTE (Raven @ 06-Jan-2006, 10:35 AM)
For me it is just as the Bible says,"Faith is the evidence of things not seen, the substance of things hoped for.."

This ties in to what I posted earlier.  My faith is based on the evidence and a lot of the evidence while tangible is not something that you can hold in your hand or carry arround in a box.

Mikel

Mmmmm, that triggered a dcTalk memory! Who else recalls their song 'Mind's Eye'??

"Faith is the evidence of things unseen
People tell me that You're just a dream
They don't know You the way that I do
You're the one I live to pursue..."

Ah, I miss that band! They were superb...

SB

I am a DC talk fan from back in the day. In fact Arminta and I started doing music with DC talk accompany tapes believe it or not tongue.gif

Heaven Bound etc...

There is a sample from Billy Graham talking about Faith on the Jesus Freak CD that has always struck me.

"...I can not see the wind, but I can see the effects of the wind..."

Great stuff and very cutting edge especially for Christian pop culture.. I was really happy that they were able to achieve some cross over success, and their live show ranks in the top 5 best that I have ever seen regardless of genre.

Peace

Mikel
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 07-Feb-2006, 10:08 AM
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Oooh, dcTalk was suPERB in person!!! Their concert in Atlanta on the Supernatural tour was the first live big concert we'd ever taken our daughter Lauren to, and talk about a perfect first-experience: we got tickets on the third row at the Fox, right in front of Kevin Max! Poor Lauren had stars in her eyes for weeks afterwards - laugh.gif
It was such fun to be that close to the front, and all three guys crossed the stage at different times so we got a good close look at them all. Their energy was a blessing to behold. I've never had so much fun shouting "ONE TWO THREE..." before or since - remember all the counting songs, like 'Colored People' and 'Day by Day'.

Oh, and I remember that big disco ball thing above the stage never came down! Our concert was like the first or second one of the tour and the guys laughed about it being a first-night kink to work out before the next show.

My legs ached for two days after that concert; I think we stood in our seats from the second song on. (Don't feel too bad for the folks behind us, they were on their seats too - wink.gif )

SB
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Sonee 
Posted: 23-Feb-2006, 09:11 PM
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QUOTE (Raven @ 06-Jan-2006, 09:35 AM)
My faith is based on the evidence and a lot of the evidence while tangible is not something that you can hold in your hand or carry arround in a box.

Mikel

Thank you everyone for your replies. I greatly appreciate the chance to learn from others! Yes, I am what you called a "seeker", I suppose. As opposed to a believer or trouble maker!!

I understand what you all are saying about faith and belief in something that you can't touch/see/smell etc, but how do you know your faith is well placed? If you speak to anyone with religious beliefs, no matter what the religion, they will tell you their "way" is the "correct" way. That what they put their faith in is what everyone should put their faith in. (I'm not explaining this properly but I hope you all can understand what I'm trying to say!) I don't understand how you "feel" the Lord, or know that he is in your life. I can't say as I have ever felt this. Does that mean I'm just a bad person and God has abandoned me? Or am I not looking in the right place?

Even the religion that most people consider diametrically opposed to Christianity, Wicca, has many of the same beliefs that Christianity does. Do unto others, respect for others and self, don't harm, etc. They also believe in a higher power, which Christians call God. Many other religions have the same principles, what makes Christianity different, and how do I find faith in it? Obviously, I had faith when I was younger, I have, evidently, lost that faith over time. Is it possible to get it back, and why should I want to get it back?

I hope this makes some form of sense. If it doesn't let me know and I will attempt to clarify myself, if I can!! Thanks for listening guys!



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Dogshirt 
Posted: 23-Feb-2006, 09:56 PM
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I find it interesting that christians ALWAYS feel that if another person is NOT, that they don't or CAN'T belive in God. I find this quite amusing. laugh.gif

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marti64 
  Posted: 23-Feb-2006, 10:42 PM
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Sonee: I found your questions interesting, because I , too have questioned the need for a "higher Power", God, or a Spiritual part of life. Many things have happened to me in my 4 decades of life to make me cynnical(SP?). I choose to trust in God, and know that he will guide me in my life's journey. THIS IS MY CHOICE!!!!

No one has foced their beliefs on me. I grew up in a Protestant church in small town Massachusetts. I went to a Catholic College in New Hampshire.

All I know is that things happen for a reason, and there is someone or something that guides us on a daily basis. It doesn't matter what you call it, call Him, Or Her for that matter. People will have different opinions!!!

I don't know if this makes any sense or not, but I had to wnter into this conversation, and I hope that my opinions do not offend.

Love for now!!!

Marti


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]AN EXCERPT FROM A POEM THAT I WROTE ON 10/11/07

WE CAN'T CHANGE WHAT WE HAVE DONE....
BUT ONLY TAKE A LESSON FROM EACH EXPERIENCE
AND MAKE THE MOST OF EACH MINUTE THAT WE HAVE LEFT
AND TELL OURELVES THAT IT IS OK TO LIVE, LAUGH AND CRY.....
PAST, PRESENT AND FUTURE ALL WORK TOGETHER
TO GIVE US WHAT WE CAN AND SHOULD EXPERIENCE
AND WE NEED TO CHERISH ALL OF THE TIME
THAT WE SPEND WITH OURSELVES AND OTHERS MAKING THE MOST OF THE SPECIAL MEMORIES THAT ARE OURS..
AND THE ONES THAT WE HAVE YET TO CREATE WITH THE PEOPLE THAT WE HAVEN'T MET!!!!![/SIZE]
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 07-Mar-2006, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (Dogshirt @ 23-Feb-2006, 09:56 PM)
I find it interesting that christians ALWAYS feel that if another person is NOT, that they don't or CAN'T belive in God. I find this quite amusing. laugh.gif

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Well I'll tell you what I ALWAYS find amusing: when individuals make generalized statements like yours. It simply rings of defensiveness...
I am a Christian and that is NOT how I feel about anyone who says they are not a Christian.
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Sonee 
Posted: 01-Jun-2006, 08:17 PM
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My apologies for being away so long. My schooling was quite a bit tougher this semester than last, and I fear it is only going to get worse from here!

Anyway, Marti, I don't question a need for a higher power, no matter what name you chose to call it. There is no question that there is a higher being out there, responsible for all that we are. I just can't seem to see the Bible as the "word" of this being. That we are supposed to live our lives by what is written in this book and no other. Did Jesus exist? According to this book he did, but there are books about dragons and unicorns too. Are we to believe that they existed as well? I just don't know. This is one thing I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

My entire family is very Bible oriented and, in that respect, very closed minded. They have no patience for my type of questions and think I'm being "rediculous", "stupid" or just trying to 'get a rise' out of them, if you get my meaning. This is not the case, of course, but they blind to anything else. That is why I have brought my queries here, hoping I wouldn't run into the same stone wall full of scorn and no answers.

Thanks to all who listen and respond honestly. without accusations or name calling.

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