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> Prisons, Is this to harsh?
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Rindy 
Posted: 16-Dec-2004, 11:06 PM
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QUOTE (bubba @ 16-Dec-2004, 09:03 PM)
My friend did time in the State prison for robbery. Some might not believe it, but he got out and got a job through a rehab program. He's now a supervisor in a paper mill and a helluva great guy. Yeah, he did something stupid and he ain't proud of it but he was determined not to make any more of that kind of mistake. He did the time, stuck out the parole with a parole officer that took great pleasure in revoking his "clients" and made it. Frankly, I'd trust him before I'd trust most "pillars of the community".

Hello bubba,

These are the stories I like to hear. It would be great if the majority of these people could be turnned loose in society. The problem is they don't care in the first place. Some are mentally ill also. That is a entire different subject. I am glad to hear a positive here. thumbs_up.gif By the way my brother did time and said it woke him up changed his life, it was so harsh. He said he would never go back. He is now a Dr. of Naturopathy, has a health food store, massage therapist. He was in for drugs how bazzare huh? smile.gif
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bubba 
Posted: 17-Dec-2004, 10:44 AM
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There was some trouble with Arpaio a few years back and his style of incarceration. He put cameras in the womens jail (no, they weren't in the tent compound). You could log on via the intenet and watch the women inmates and, if you subscribed at the top membership level, you could watch them changing and showering. It didn't last long, the courts made him stop that. His argument back then was "So what. They're all whores anyway". Arpaio is after 2 things, publicity and a fast buck.


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Rindy 
Posted: 17-Dec-2004, 11:07 AM
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QUOTE (bubba @ 17-Dec-2004, 08:44 AM)
There was some trouble with Arpaio a few years back and his style of incarceration. He put cameras in the womens jail (no, they weren't in the tent compound). You could log on via the intenet and watch the women inmates and, if you subscribed at the top membership level, you could watch them changing and showering. It didn't last long, the courts made him stop that. His argument back then was "So what. They're all whores anyway". Arpaio is after 2 things, publicity and a fast buck.

Hello bubba,

You could be right. That is a awful thing to do also. Did these women know this was happening to them, as a type of punishment? I say send the prisoners to Iraq let them fight. This is a very deep subject. Thanks for you input.

Slainte
Rindy
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Rindy 
Posted: 17-Dec-2004, 11:09 AM
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QUOTE (bubba @ 17-Dec-2004, 08:44 AM)
There was some trouble with Arpaio a few years back and his style of incarceration. He put cameras in the womens jail (no, they weren't in the tent compound). You could log on via the intenet and watch the women inmates and, if you subscribed at the top membership level, you could watch them changing and showering. It didn't last long, the courts made him stop that. His argument back then was "So what. They're all whores anyway".  Arpaio is after 2 things, publicity and a fast buck.

Hello bubba,

You could be right. That is a awful thing to do also. Did these women know this was happening to them, as a type of punishment? I say send the prisoners to Iraq let them fight. Instead of these honest volenteering young people. This is a very deep subject. Thanks for you input.

Slainte
Rindy
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bubba 
Posted: 17-Dec-2004, 01:43 PM
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Rindy, funny thing. Lately judges in a few places have been giving some offenders the option of enlisting rather than jail. Last time that happened was during Vietnam and, I think, in some cases it's a good idea. Crime and punishment is a tough call. Which can be turned around and which can't. What works best for the benefit of society. There simply aren't any pat answers. There's nothing simple about it. re, Arpaios cameras, he rubbed their noses in it. Personally I think Arpaio is a borderline sadist. Convicts shouldn't get off easy, on that I agree with most, but there has to be some though given to salvaging those that can be rehabilitated. Sometimes one might need mental therapy, others might need education. Some thought and provision needs to be given to that. Like my friend who was allowed to finish high school in prison and take a couple other courses. The result was a benefit to society as a whole.
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Rindy 
Posted: 17-Dec-2004, 01:49 PM
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Yes I totally agree with you bubba. We are not God. smile.gif
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single speed 
Posted: 18-Dec-2004, 10:13 AM
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We can sit here at our laptops all we want and talk about how those who break the law should be punished. What if we gave these men and women the opportunity to not break the law at all?

What do you think would happen if school funding were equatible so that EVERY child had an equal educational opportunity no matter waht the conditions of the neighborhood. That is school facilities in public schools would be equal no matter how rich or poor the nieghborhood.

What would happen if all companies paid a minimum wage that was a living wage and benefits? In other words, a parent with low skills could make enough money that one job could provide the funds so that the parent could be home when their kids came home, and provide them with a traditional family environment, instead of having to work two or three jobs?

What would happen if our society actuall tried to educate its teenagers about their own sexuality and provide them with the answers to their questions about how their bodies work. Our kids would take ownership of their sexuality and understand the true consequences of teen pregnancy BEFORE teen pregnancy.

What if our national drug policy sought to educate students about drugs and their concequences. How about if we sentenced drug offenders equatibly no matter what their social status, celebrity, or income? What if our entertaiment industry didnt treat alchol abuse and the use of marajuana as a gag line for an easy laugh?

True, not all prisoners are pproducts of their environment. Many had the same opportunities as you and I had, yet for some reason felt compelled to break the law. For them, we bulid prisons. Many prople endure their poverty to become outstanding citizens. They are lauded and commended. However, for a majority of prisioners, life was stacked against them from the start. they made mistakes, poor decisions, or just gave up. These are the men and women that an equitable educational system, fair wages, and drug education would likely keep out of prison.

While you sit at your compuer screens doling out punnishment for criminals, thaink about the concequences that got many of them there. Poverty, injustice, and neighborhoods that were in themselves, prisons.

By the grace of God, I, you, and most of the members of this site did not face the hardship that most many of the men and women in prison faced grownig up. Think about it before you cast the first stone.



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celtica 
Posted: 18-Dec-2004, 10:42 AM
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Thanks Single Speed, I feel better smile.gif

I totally agree with all you said. The solution for criminality is not in sadistic punishment or humiliation (see how it worked in the past rolleyes.gif ), but in education and prevention. If society failed somewhere, she has to support the consequences, and manage decent conditions of living for the prisonners, otherwise, if they are treated like beasts and have no hope for the future they will act like beasts...you know when you've nothing to loose, not even your dignity...


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single speed 
Posted: 18-Dec-2004, 11:44 PM
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Thanks, Celtica.

You get it!
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Rindy 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 12:01 AM
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I do agree with both of you to a certain extent. But all the money and education in the world is not going to stop some of these people. It is much easier to sell drugs than go get a small paying job, and yes that is society now. How do we rid the evil? I just don't think there is a answer. The prison population is growing so fast we can't build prisons fast enough. It is a very deep subject , I like hearing what all the others think. Just wish we could fix the problem. sad.gif
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seadreamer 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 12:16 PM
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Greetings Everyone,

On a contrary view, who was it that said "The measure of how civilized we are can be guaged by the state of our prisons."

Around Christmas time methinks it wouldn't hurt either to wish Peace and Love to all those people less fortunate than ourselves. Peace and Love to the prisoners, prostitutes, the homeless, the Poor, the abused - to abused children who may grow up to become criminals.
"Great As the Sea is their Sorrow" and what's to hurt in wishing them Peace and Love?

All the best of the Season to You All

GMD


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I will give you an example which I have often puzzled over. The spider dances her web without knowing there are flies who will get caught in it. The fly, dancing nonchalantly on a sunbeam, gets caught without knowing what lies in store. But through both of them "It" dances and inside and outside are united in this dance. So too, the Archer hits the target without having aimed - more I cannot say.

Zen in the Art of Archery
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dragonboy3611 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 12:26 PM
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If they want to be treated nice, and have a friendly envirnment...they shouldn't have done the crime to get in jail in the first place! I don't think what that Sheriff did should be wrong or prosecuted in any way, but you know, of course some family of an in-mate will come out to fight it!


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celtica 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 01:17 PM
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They have to be treated as human being, that's all. And this sheriff is a mad sadist and should be in jail too.
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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 02:00 PM
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QUOTE (single speed @ 18-Dec-2004, 10:13 AM)
We can sit here at our laptops all we want and talk about how those who break the law should be punished. What if we gave these men and women the opportunity to not break the law at all?

What do you think would happen if school funding were equatible so that EVERY child had an equal educational opportunity no matter waht the conditions of the neighborhood. That is school facilities in public schools would be equal no matter how rich or poor the nieghborhood.

What would happen if all companies paid a minimum wage that was a living wage and benefits? In other words, a parent with low skills could make enough money that one job could provide the funds so that the parent could be home when their kids came home, and provide them with a traditional family environment, instead of having to work two or three jobs?

What would happen if our society actuall tried to educate its teenagers about their own sexuality and provide them with the answers to their questions about how their bodies work. Our kids would take ownership of their sexuality and understand the true consequences of teen pregnancy BEFORE teen pregnancy.

What if our national drug policy sought to educate students about drugs and their concequences. How about if we sentenced drug offenders equatibly no matter what their social status, celebrity, or income? What if our entertaiment industry didnt treat alchol abuse and the use of marajuana as a gag line for an easy laugh?

True, not all prisoners are pproducts of their environment. Many had the same opportunities as you and I had, yet for some reason felt compelled to break the law. For them, we bulid prisons. Many prople endure their poverty to become outstanding citizens. They are lauded and commended. However, for a majority of prisioners, life was stacked against them from the start. they made mistakes, poor decisions, or just gave up. These are the men and women that an equitable educational system, fair wages, and drug education would likely keep out of prison.

While you sit at your compuer screens doling out punnishment for criminals, thaink about the concequences that got many of them there. Poverty, injustice, and neighborhoods that were in themselves, prisons.

By the grace of God, I, you, and most of the members of this site did not face the hardship that most many of the men and women in prison faced grownig up. Think about it before you cast the first stone.

Thank you, single speed. I agree with all your points and statements. And celtica says it right to my mind...they have the right to be treated as human beings.


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"The soul would have no rainbow, if the eye had no tears."
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single speed 
Posted: 19-Dec-2004, 09:20 PM
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QUOTE (gaberlunzie @ 19-Dec-2004, 02:00 PM)

Thank you, single speed. I agree with all your points and statements. And celtica says it right to my mind...they have the right to be treated as human beings.

merci!
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