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> What Is The Definition Of A Pagan Yours And Others, Paganism is a diverse topic....lets see
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Ceciliastar1 
Posted: 30-Sep-2004, 06:19 PM
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celticwoodsman your definition pretty much sums up what I have alway thought a pagan to be.


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There's a dear little plant that grows in our Isle
Twas St . Patrick himself, sure, that set it;
And the sun of his labour with pleasure did smile,
And with dew from his eye often wet it.
It grows through the bog, through the brake, through the
Mireland, and they call it the dear little shamrock of Ireland.
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urian 
Posted: 30-Sep-2004, 07:12 PM
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celticwoodsman,
dont forget lupercalia and Valentines day as well

but the similarities only exist due to the powers that be at the time trying to find ways to convert the pagan "dogs". SO they made their holidays coincide with the pagan ones.

anyway...I'll shut up


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'Dying for being different is still better than living as a Sheep'-anon
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Balachasen 
Posted: 01-Oct-2004, 02:48 AM
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Hallo,
Ciamar a tha leibh? 'S mise Raff as an Sealainn nuadh....Feumaidh mi canain de m' clann.....
Tha m' clann an clann Rosaich, an clann Ghill' Innein, an clann Grannt agus an clann Marr.

Im from NZ, and as you can see im proud to pay homage to my clan ancestry.
I greet all gaedhlig speakers with particular warmth.....despite my own Gaedhlig not yet being so strong.

Pagan for me signifies culture, a bond with nature and people, good things pre-christian and post-christian, muffins and cider, Gaedhlig, clann affiliations, grounded spirituality, warm natural colours, being close to one's soul, personal unfixed religion, modan, rejoicing in and being proud of a full, rich life, that links past present and future.
I think Pagan means rejoicing all the good things in life.

Slainte mhath,

Balachasen
Raff Dellavaris
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celticwoodsman 
Posted: 01-Oct-2004, 09:38 AM
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urian, there is no need to shut up, that is actually a very strong belief that christians adapted other religious holidays in order to convert. I am not putting a spin on this to say if it was right, or if this is the actual thought behind the practices but here are some more examples that i have found in my armchair discussions, and historical research: (references provided on request):
Sunday, rather than saturday for the christian sabbath was not decided by a "pope" but rather an emperor. A final act of "spite" by the emperor that followers of Jesus the Nazarean honor their sabbath on the day of the sun god. (assumption by theologins and cultural anthropologists)
It is fabled that Justinian of the Eastern Roman empire (527-65) was converted though his wife was a "pagan" from Syria:
The Corpus Juris is full of laws against paganism (apostasy was punished by death, 10 c., "De pag.", I, 11), Jews, Samaritans (who began a dangerous revolt in 529), Manichaeans, and other heretics. The decrees of the four general councils were incorporated in the civil law. There was no toleration of dissent. True to the ideal of Constantinople, the emperor conceived himself as "priest and king", supreme head on earth in matters ecclesiastical as well as in the State. He filled his codex with canon law and assumed the most outspoken Erastianism as the law of the empire.



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You will not go hungry until I starve, you shall not go thirsty as I have drink, you shall have my bed and be warm, you shall sit on my right as we feast in the great halls of our ancestors, and for when we die, and go to the great battle of valhalla....we shall stand together and fight ....at the end we shall look upon each other strewn with the blood of OUR enemies, and then....I shall call you FRIEND
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celticwoodsman 
Posted: 01-Oct-2004, 09:40 AM
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on the "communion of saints"

...the Christian religion; and they manifested their devotion to them both in public and private worship: in public, by celebrating the anniversaries of individual saints, and keeping annually the feast of All-Hallows as a solemnity of the first class; and in their private devotions, by observing the instructions to worship God and then to "pray, first to Saint Mary, and the holy apostles, and the holy martyrs, and all God's saints, that they would intercede for them to God". In this way they learned to look up to the saints in heaven with feelings of confidence and affection, to consider them as friends and protectors, and to implore their aid in the hour of distress, with the hope that God would grant to the patron what he might otherwise refuse to the supplicant.

Believed to be initiated in Eire, and other Iles by Patrick as an explaination to "pagans" why they should pray to one god, as opposed to their many.
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Ceciliastar1 
Posted: 01-Oct-2004, 10:26 AM
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Okay, so I've been Catholic all my life (not really practicing anymore) but celitcwoodsman that is the best explanation of what Catholics do when it comes to Mary and the saints. I have never heard it put better. Not priest has ever been able to explain it to me. Wow! Thanks for making me finally understand! haha!
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urian 
Posted: 01-Oct-2004, 01:53 PM
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Celtic,
We could discuss this all day. (its one of my passions) but I think we should start another thread on it.
Similarities / forced and otherwise. between christian faiths and others.

Having studied a myriad of books and religions I think we could had a wonderful times discussing this topic
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celticwoodsman 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 01:15 PM
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Just stating a similarity in some pagan religions that have been christianized. If you want to start another thread that is cool, but I will not be involved if there is a paganism is better because...
I like to show that we are all one, and even the evangelicals see some types of paganism as "lost 'brothers & sister'" where I see that I am not lost, just an a path with a better view.

I am glad that I was able to help out with the explaination of sainthood. No christian can speak of that as slander because it was originally from a christian source. If anyone has more questions on the similarities of paganism and christiandom I can also help out, (especially if there is another forum started for it). I am here to educate and have intellectual "arguments" (if you do not understand the terms of argument see philosophy) .
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urian 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 01:56 PM
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QUOTE (celticwoodsman @ 04-Oct-2004, 12:15 PM)
Just stating a similarity in some pagan religions that have been christianized. If you want to start another thread that is cool, but I will not be involved if there is a paganism is better because...
I like to show that we are all one, and even the evangelicals see some types of paganism as "lost 'brothers & sister'" where I see that I am not lost, just an a path with a better view.

I grew up around "Fundamentals" and "Devouts" that believed their way was better and everyone else was going to burn. Likewise I have friends who believe Paganism is better because...
Myself. I am not that way. I have my own beliefs and they are different from (well everyone's so far tongue.gif ). I dont belief my school of thought is better or worse than anyone elses so I would never start a thread that would be anything akin to that.
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bubba 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 09:27 PM
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To my way of thinking the only inferior beliefs are ones that cause harm. There are many paths to the same destination and no one path is the right one for everyone. Each person has to choose what's right for them. If it causes no harm do it and protect the weak from the strong.


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[SIZE=7]Curtesie is cumbersom to them that kens it not.
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Annham 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 10:36 PM
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QUOTE
I grew up around "Fundamentals" and "Devouts" that believed their way was better and everyone else was going to burn.


Not a very good reason to adopt a belief system is it?

What if there were no consequences (ie...to go to heaven or hell) in believing in this or that?

What if we were all to believe and aspire to what is right and just?

Then, what would we all believe important?

I think we need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Really, I think we would pretty much all come to the same conclusions as to what is important.

Anne angel_not.gif


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“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.”

~ Dalai Lama
21st century spiritual and political leader of Tibet and Nobel Peace Prize winner (1989)
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urian 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 10:39 PM
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QUOTE (Annham @ 04-Oct-2004, 09:36 PM)

Not a very good reason to adopt a belief system is it?

What if there were no consequences (ie...to go to heaven or hell) in believing in this or that?

What if we were all to believe and aspire to what is right and just?

Then, what would we all believe important?

I think we need to separate the wheat from the chaff.

Really, I think we would pretty much all come to the same conclusions as to what is important.

Anne angel_not.gif

very true , Ann.

I think it was that narrow view that helped spur me on to learn as much I could and to become my own person in many ways.
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Shadows 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 10:48 PM
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You all are finding the true issues of faith and beliefes... the creator is a personal things and no one can tell you that you are wrong as long as you believe it in your heart.


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I support the separation of church and hate!

IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!


One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS


Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
Religion has spoiled many a good man.

The clan MacEwen
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Annham 
Posted: 04-Oct-2004, 10:58 PM
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Me Too! wink.gif
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bubba 
Posted: 05-Oct-2004, 09:58 AM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ 04-Oct-2004, 09:48 PM)
You all are finding the true issues of faith and beliefes... the creator is a personal things and no one can tell you that you are wrong as long as you believe it in your heart.

There is faith and there is religion. They are not neccesarily the same thing. My parents were rather unhappy when I abandoned the Lutheran religion that they raised me with but over time they've come to see that my choice of faith is as valid as theirs.
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