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Merewyn 
Posted: 03-Mar-2005, 04:09 PM
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Clan Gunn

I was adopted at 2 mos. of age, and my name then was Pamela Robison.

Years ago when I was searching for my biological family, an amateur genealogist sent me an entire booklet full of information on the Robisons. It's one of my prize possessions.



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Monarchs Own 
Posted: 07-Mar-2005, 07:48 PM
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Contacted Clan MacBean and got confirmed that my husband is affiliated with this clan since he is of direct descend of John Bean of Exeter, New Hampshire.

Here is an excerpt what Clan MacBean wrote to me:

We keep records of all Beans and as many of their septs as we can get.
It just happens that our largest database is the John Bean of Exeter line.
That line was merged with and became a part of Clan MacBean a number of years ago.
They use to be the John Bean of Exeter family line and had their own database and information.
Bernie MacBean got them to merge with his newly formed Clan MacBean and they became our largest family line.
A lot of the information in New England was not destroyed during the Civil War, so his line is much easier to track than some of the others. He arrived in the new world about 1652 after being captured in a battle with Cromwell in about 1651.
Would love any update you can send us on your family line. We sometimes lose the females as it was hard to keep track of them, but I am trying to add as many as we can. All descendants are important to us.
Let me know if I can help you any more.


Now I am working on the Anderson affiliation for my husband as well.

Wish me luck that one day I get my husband to wear his kilt. LOL



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DesertRose 
Posted: 08-Mar-2005, 07:10 PM
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What exciting news for you, Monarch!

I went to the Highland games two weekends ago and looked into one of my great-grandmothers who was a Taylor. That would be part of the Cameron clan. I am not sure if that means sept or not. I can't remember!

Still confused what a sept versus clan means. Anybody want to explain that to me? unsure.gif


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Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 
Posted: 08-Mar-2005, 07:52 PM
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According to the Court of the Lord Lyon, which is the official Scottish authority in clan matters:
Lord Lyon's definition of clan.
QUOTE
The best definition of a clan provided by a heraldic authority is contained in Nisbet's "System of Heraldry", published in 1722: ?A social group consisting of an aggregate of distinct erected families actually descended, or accepting themselves as descendants of a common ancestor, and which has been received by the Sovereign through its Supreme Officer of Honour, the Lord Lyon, as an honourable community whereof all of the members on establishing right to, or receiving fresh grants of, personal hereditary nobility will be awarded arms as determinate or indeterminate cadets both as may be of the chief family of the clan.?

Further:
QUOTE
A clan or family. which has a recognised chief or head confers noble status on the clan or family which gives it a legally recognised status and a corporate identity. A family or name group which has no recognised chief has no official position under the law of Scotland.

A sept is essentially a small clan that owes allegiance to a larger clan.


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DesertRose 
Posted: 09-Mar-2005, 06:07 PM
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Okay, thanks Mailagnus. Now. Since my great-grandmother's name is Taylor which is under the clan name of Cameron. Does that make Taylor a "sept" of the clan of Cameron or part of the clan Cameron? I don't know how to explain my question.........sorry!

I also have a great-grandmother who was a McArthur whose family was from Scotland. How would I find out what clan McArthur might be? I forgot how to do all this! huh.gif Any good sites out there?

Thanks!
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Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 
Posted: 10-Mar-2005, 08:30 AM
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CelticRose,
Electric Scotland is always a good starting point for research on particular clans and families.
As I understand it, septs are branches of clans. During the days when the highland system was still in effect, a sept could become large enough and control enough land to become a clan in its own right.
As a member of a branch of a clan, a member of the sept would owe allegiance to the clan chief, and would have the same rights and responsibilities as any other member of the clan.
One page that indexes the current status of various clans is Histories of Scottish Clans & Families.
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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 10-Mar-2005, 01:09 PM
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QUOTE (Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas @ 10-Mar-2005, 08:30 AM)
As I understand it, septs are branches of clans. During the days when the highland system was still in effect, a sept could become large enough and control enough land to become a clan in its own right.
As a member of a branch of a clan, a member of the sept would owe allegiance to the clan chief, and would have the same rights and responsibilities as any other member of the clan.

A clan branch was just one group of the main family, i.e. Bighouse Mackays, Scourie Mackays, Strathnaver Mackays, Aberach Mackays, etc. A sept was a smaller family grouping, not of the main family, that lived in the main familiy's territotory and swore alliegence to it, i.e. (septs of Mackay) Bain, Rose, Williamson, etc. Since these smaller families could live in many places, many times the same family name might be a sept of several different clans so that you would need to know where the person came from to know which clan he was a sept of.


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DesertRose 
Posted: 10-Mar-2005, 06:50 PM
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Hey! Thanks so much guys! That explains a lot. I had totally forgotten about Electric Scotland! doh! I probably even have it on my favorites list too! rolleyes.gif Thanks for the other site too, Mailagnus!
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Celeste 
  Posted: 17-May-2005, 08:53 AM
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Well my surname is Lowrey. We added the "E" when my great-great-great-great grandfather left Scotland with his Irish bride.

My clan affiliation is Gordon. Heres a little history.

The Clan Gordon


Arms: Quarterly, 1st, Azure, three boars' heads couped Or, armed Proper langued Gules (Gordon); 2nd, Or, three lion's heads erased Gules langued Azure (Lordship of Bedenoch); 3rd, Or, three crescents within a Royal Tressure Gules (seton); 4th, Azure, three fraises Argent (Fraser)

Badge: Out of crest coronet a stag's head (affrontée) Proper attired with 10 tines Or.

Branches: Gordon of Haddo, Gordon of Lochinvar, Gordon of Strathbogie

Tartan: Gordon, Gordon (red), Gordon (dress), Gordon (old, triple stripe)

Mottos: Bydand (Abiding), Animo non atitia (By courage not cunning)

Slogan: A Gordon! A Gordon!

Gaelic Name: Gôrdon


The name Gordon comes from the parish of Gordon in Berwickshire and Sir Adam of Gordon was granted Strathbogie, confiscated from the Earl of Atholl, in Aberdeenshire by Robert the Bruce in return for service to Bruce's cause, including being one of the ambassador's to Rome who fought to have the Bruce's excommunication removed. The Gordon's weilded enormous power during the 16th and 17th centuries, so much so that their chief was known as "the Cock of the North".

The castle of Strathbogie was renamed Huntly after a part of the Gordon lands in the Borders. In 1436 Alexander Gordon was named Lord Gordon and his son was given the title of Earl of Huntly.

During the fighting between the Douglases and the King, the Gordon's sided with the Royals. Their lands were then raised and the castle of Huntly burned when the Gordons moved south to aid the King. However, once the power of the Douglases was broken the Gordons grew unchallenged.

The fourth Duke of Gordon raised, at his own expense, his own regiment known as the Gordon Highlanders for whom the yellow stripe was introduced into the Black watch tartan. He was also Chancellor of Scotland in 1547 and was a close friend of Mary of Guise Mary Queen of Scots mother.

During the 1715 and 1745 Jacobite rebellions the Gordon's fought on both sides. The second Duke of Gordon followed the "Old Pretender" at Sheriffmuir but the third Duke fought for the Hanoverians against Prince Charlie at Culloden. The Dukes brother, Lord Louis Gordon, did raise two battalions of Gordons to fight for the Prince. He died in France in 1754.

The mother of the famous poet Lord Byron was Catherine Gordon of Gight, who inherited Gight Castle and its lands, only to have to sell them in 1787 to pay off the gambling debts of her husband.


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HighGravityBrewer 
  Posted: 24-Jun-2005, 03:57 PM
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QUOTE (Celeste @ 17-May-2005, 09:53 AM)
Well my surname is Lowrey. We added the "E" when my great-great-great-great grandfather left Scotland with his Irish bride.

My clan affiliation is Gordon. Heres a little history.

The Clan Gordon


Arms: Quarterly, 1st, Azure, three boars' heads couped Or, armed Proper langued Gules (Gordon); 2nd, Or, three lion's heads erased Gules langued Azure (Lordship of Bedenoch); 3rd, Or, three crescents within a Royal Tressure Gules (seton); 4th, Azure, three fraises Argent (Fraser)

Badge: Out of crest coronet a stag's head (affrontée) Proper attired with 10 tines Or.

Branches: Gordon of Haddo, Gordon of Lochinvar, Gordon of Strathbogie

Tartan: Gordon, Gordon (red), Gordon (dress), Gordon (old, triple stripe)

Mottos: Bydand (Abiding), Animo non atitia (By courage not cunning)

Slogan: A Gordon! A Gordon!

Gaelic Name: Gôrdon


The name Gordon comes from the parish of Gordon in Berwickshire and Sir Adam of Gordon was granted Strathbogie, confiscated from the Earl of Atholl, in Aberdeenshire by Robert the Bruce in return for service to Bruce's cause, including being one of the ambassador's to Rome who fought to have the Bruce's excommunication removed. The Gordon's weilded enormous power during the 16th and 17th centuries, so much so that their chief was known as "the Cock of the North".

The castle of Strathbogie was renamed Huntly after a part of the Gordon lands in the Borders. In 1436 Alexander Gordon was named Lord Gordon and his son was given the title of Earl of Huntly.

During the fighting between the Douglases and the King, the Gordon's sided with the Royals. Their lands were then raised and the castle of Huntly burned when the Gordons moved south to aid the King. However, once the power of the Douglases was broken the Gordons grew unchallenged.

The fourth Duke of Gordon raised, at his own expense, his own regiment known as the Gordon Highlanders for whom the yellow stripe was introduced into the Black watch tartan. He was also Chancellor of Scotland in 1547 and was a close friend of Mary of Guise Mary Queen of Scots mother.

During the 1715 and 1745 Jacobite rebellions the Gordon's fought on both sides. The second Duke of Gordon followed the "Old Pretender" at Sheriffmuir but the third Duke fought for the Hanoverians against Prince Charlie at Culloden. The Dukes brother, Lord Louis Gordon, did raise two battalions of Gordons to fight for the Prince. He died in France in 1754.

The mother of the famous poet Lord Byron was Catherine Gordon of Gight, who inherited Gight Castle and its lands, only to have to sell them in 1787 to pay off the gambling debts of her husband.

I am wondering if my Lowry surname is Gordan or MacLaren? I have found a lot of websites that say either. Any help in this or some knowledge on the subject as to why there would be two calns with the same surname would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks, John William Lowry, Jr.
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subhuman 
Posted: 31-Oct-2005, 11:58 AM
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While discussion of Electric Scotland has come up, I also have to second them for Scottish Clan/Namegroup history.
For all those many peope who have posted something along the lines of not knowing if they belong to a certain clan, don't worry about it. If you bought the wrong tartan for your kilt- it really doesn't matter most times. As far as accuracy in tracing your family's history it may matter- but here's an excerpt from 2001 covering how Lord Lyon, and therefore in this area, Scottish Law views the topic:
QUOTE
It should first be recognised that a clan or family is a legally recognised group in Scotland, which has a corporate identity in the same way that a company, club or partnership has a corporate identity in law. A clan or family is a ''noble incorporation" because it has an officially recognised chief or head who being a nobleman of Scotland confers his noble status on the clan or family, thus making it a legally and statutorily recognised noble corporation often called "the Honourable Clan?" A name group, which does not have a chief, has no official position in the law of Scotland


QUOTE
All persons who bear the chief's surname are deemed to be members of his clan. Equally, it is generally accepted that someone who determines to offer their allegiance to the chief shall be recognised as a member of that clan unless the chief has decreed that he will not accept such a person's allegiance, Thus, if a person offers his allegiance to a particular chief by joining his clan society or by wearing his tartan, he can be deemed to have elected to join that particular clan and should be viewed as a member of that clan unless the chief particularly states that he or his name group are not to be allowed to join the clan.


Unless you, or your particular surname, are specificly excluded from the clan you are considered legally a member of the clan. If your name is found associated with more than one clan and you cannot narrow down your family's exact origins, it really doesn't matter. Pick one, even if you're not sure just go with the clan you feel you have the strongest ties to and wear the tartan with pride! Most clan societies will accept you even with tenuous ties, although they usually want to see a little more than just the color of your kilt.


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subhuman 
Posted: 31-Oct-2005, 12:08 PM
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Whoops! I forgot to provide the link to the entire article I quoted above!
http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/c...ilies_septs.htm
While we're at it, a link to an explanation of Clanship: http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/kin.htm
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subhuman 
Posted: 31-Oct-2005, 02:02 PM
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After reading what others have posted, I have to say that I have it easy in some regards. My Scottish surname is only found in one place, so there's no real confusion as to the origins. My family also kept fairly accurate records over the last two and a half centuries, the time spent in the US and Canada. Go ahead, search around- you'll only find the name Keith in one place, and luckily it's easy enough to trace the Keith name back to what is now called clan Keith. smile.gif
From here until I state otherwise I'm not cliaiming to be a direct descendant.
The name Keith is believed to be Norman in origin, as are many Scots. The oldest surviving record of the name Keith dates to the reign of David I. A Baron named Hervelus witnessed the charter where Robert deBrus (no, not THAT famous one) was granted Annandale. Shortly afterwards Hervelus was named Keith Hervei and appointed the office of Keith Marischal. The year for this would have been approximately between 1100 and 1120. From this time until 1715 it's hard to find a part of Scottish history that does not mention the Keiths, who held the title of Marischal in various forms until 1715. Whether it be Robert de Keith's involvement in the government after the death of Wallace, fighting in the wars of Independance under the standard of Bruce at the Battle of Inverury, leading the cavalry charge at Bannockburn that broke the English archers- the list goes on in this era. For services in the War for Indepandance, lands were granted in Aberdeen. He continued to perform services for Robert the Bruce, being one of the signers of the Declaration of Abroath in 1320, appointed to negotiate for peace with England in 1323, and aftert the Bruce's death he was one of the knights who carried the Bruce's heart to the holy lands.
The Keiths came into possession of land around Stonehaven, and the remains of the only castle built by the Keiths, Dunnottar, is located here. There's an interesting bit of history surrounding this wehre the Keiths were excommunicated from the Church for this, but it was later reversed by a Papal Bull in 1394. The high point of the history of Dunnottar came in 1651 while Cromwell's armies were running rampant through Scotland. Having been raised to the peerage in 1458 with the title of Earl Marischal, one of the responsibilities of the Keiths was the protection of the Honours of Scotland (the sword, sceptre and crown of state) as well as conveying them and presenting them at coronations. In 1651, Donnottar was the last castle in Scotland still flying the Scottish flag, and it was where the Honours of Scotland were located. Cromwell's army laid seige- with most reports stating that Dunnottar had a garrison of only 70 men. These men held out for eight months against an army that had in a period of two years swept through Ireland and Scotland. Dunnottar was surrendered, only to have the English discover that their seige had been unsuccessful- the Honours of Scotland as well as a number of Charles II's personal papers had been removed from the castle.
Here are a few links to pictures of Dunnottar- it becomes pretty obvious why it managed to hold out against a siege. If it hadn't been for cannon, Dunnottar could have been held against an army while defended by a few grannies with broomsticks!
http://www.darkisle.com/d/dunnottar/dunnottar1.html
http://www.castles.org/Chatelaine/dunnottar/
This one has a few interior shots, including the main hall and various defenses:
http://www.undiscoveredscotland.co.uk/ston...unnottarcastle/
Finally, this one which gives you abetter view of the sheer 150' cliff walls:
http://www.electricscotland.com/pictures/set6.htm
Aftier the forfeiture of Keith lands and Titles, Dunnottar was partially dismantled twice during the early 1700's. Unfortunately not much remains today.
The title of Earl Marischal was the third-highest Office of the Crown in Scotland, and was only held by Keiths. After their support of Bonnie Prince Charlie in 1715, all lands and titles were forfeit- and the office has never been filled since.
http://www.electricscotland.com/webclans/e...ldoms/index.htm
http://encyclopedia.thefreedictionary.com/.../Earl+Marischal
A Keith, the fifth Earl Marischal, founded Marischal College in Aberdeen. It remains the second-largest granite structure in the world, and was founded as a protestant alternative to the Catholic King's College int he same city. In the 1800's they were merged by an act of Parlaiment, and are now known collectively as Aberdeen University. http://www.abdn.ac.uk/central/vcampus/mari...marischal.shtml
Surviving to this day is a banner carried by a Keith during the Battle of Flodden Field, 1535 bearing what is now adopted as the clan motto- Veritis Vincit, or Truth Conquers.
At this link, under the heading "Field Marshall Keith," is a brief history of one of th Keiths after being expelled from Scotland. http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/oct/14.htm He may hold the distinction of being one of the few people who has a statue in both Scotland (Peterhead) and in Germany (Berlin).
As for the history that I can actually trace back to my immediate family- we came to Nova Scotia by way of Dublin in 1715. I suspect but cannot prove strong ties to the titled Keiths due to the year- that was the same time that Keith lands and Titles were forfieted. However, there's a rather mundane history from that point on, probably the most exciting part being my grandparents eloping to Maine which is how part of the immediiate family came to be in the US. Of being a descendant of a relative the famous Keiths- there's little doubt, the timeline fits too well. However it's likely to have been a distant relative.
Two other branches of the family have been traced back to the early 1700's as well, one German and the other of Welsh or (shudder!) English origin.


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DesertRose 
Posted: 18-Nov-2005, 10:23 PM
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Hey subhuman! Lucky you can trace your family! Cool! thumbs_up.gif I have many great-grandmothers with supposed Scottish surnames I have Taylor, Walker, Suit. Alison, McArthur and Blackstock. Taylor is a sept of Cameron. Allison would be MacFarlane and McArthur is debateable! All in all I am a Heinz 57 American since I have Italian, English and Scots-Irish ancestry. rolleyes.gif

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MiLadyCeilidh 
Posted: 23-Dec-2005, 02:30 PM
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Clan Leslie here!
Also GORDON ... GRANT ... MACINTOSH ... BRUCE ... CAMERON ... CARNEGIE ... BELL... FORBES ... TAYLOR ... BENNET ... ROSS ... MACDOUGAL ... MACGREGOR ... MACDUFF ... JAMES ... LAMONT ...ROBERTSON ... I'm a heinz 57 of Scots


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