Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )
   Mobile App






Forum Rules Enter at own risk!

The Philosophy, Science & Religion forum has been created as an unmoderated forum. The issues discussed here can and will get very intense. Please show respect and appreciation to alternative views posted here. We appreciate your consideration.

Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

> Accurate Bible?, controversy
Bookmark and Share
Raven 
Posted: 26-Jul-2004, 04:15 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,994
Joined: 23-Oct-2003
ZodiacHolly

Realm: Indianapolis, IN

male





QUOTE (Shadows @ 23-Jul-2004, 05:51 PM)
No one has proven it accurate either.

This discussion has been going on for centuries and may ( I say may only because I do not see much future for the world as we know it now ) go on for many more.

There are those who believe it as history and those who do not, there are those who say they found the truth while trying to prove it wrong and those who lost their faith while trying to prove it right.

One's beliefs can ebb and flow and only the creator knows the truth and will share that truth when he/she feels that you are ready for the truth.

ON the contrary Shadows

The Bible has been proven accurate in many historical aspects (by archaiological methods) such as the existence of citys once thought to be mythical.

Plus it has proven accurate in it's support of known physical laws such as the 2nd law of thermodynamics.

Just to give a couple of examples.

A good book for you to read that would expand your knowledge in this area is Evidence that demands a Verdict by Josh McDowel.

I think that you would find this very interesting reading.

Peace

Mikel


--------------------
He is no fool who gives up that which he can not keep to gain that which he cannot loose

www.arminta.net
PMEmail PosterUsers Website               View My Space Profile.
Top
DesertRose 
Posted: 26-Jul-2004, 05:08 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 6,913
Joined: 09-Nov-2003
ZodiacAlder

Realm: The desert of Arizona

female





I must say, Raven, that is an excellent book. I have that and "More Evidence that Demands a Verdict." Both great books! smile.gif


--------------------
Fine art & photography by DESERT ROSE IMAGES
http://www.desertrose-images.com
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteMy Photo Album               
Top
reddrake79 
Posted: 27-Jul-2004, 10:24 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Braveheart Member
******

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 132
Joined: 10-Mar-2004
ZodiacRowan

Realm: oregon

male





Another Great book, for those who have questions about the Bible, such as "Where did Cain get his wife? What killed the Dinosaurs? etc." Is the Answers book by Ken Ham


--------------------
Friendship, Love, and Loyalty
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Shadows 
Posted: 27-Jul-2004, 11:24 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline





Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group Icon

Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,157
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
ZodiacHolly

Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods

male





QUOTE (Raven @ 26-Jul-2004, 04:15 PM)
ON the contrary Shadows

The Bible has been proven accurate in many historical aspects (by archaiological methods) such as the existence of citys once thought to be mythical....



A good book for you to read that would expand your knowledge in this area is Evidence that demands a Verdict by Josh McDowel.

I think that you would find this very interesting reading.

Peace

Mikel

Yes it is good reading, but did not prove to me one thing.

It is just like any book, the words of humans...

As for the cities being there... most writers us the world around them that they know as the basis for their works.


--------------------
I support the separation of church and hate!

IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!


One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS


Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
Religion has spoiled many a good man.

The clan MacEwen
PMEmail PosterUsers Website My Photo Album               
Top
Raven 
Posted: 27-Jul-2004, 12:51 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 1,994
Joined: 23-Oct-2003
ZodiacHolly

Realm: Indianapolis, IN

male





QUOTE (Shadows @ 27-Jul-2004, 11:24 AM)
QUOTE (Raven @ 26-Jul-2004, 04:15 PM)
ON the contrary Shadows

The Bible has been proven accurate in many historical aspects (by archaiological methods) such as the existence of citys once thought to be mythical....



A good book for you to read that would expand your knowledge in this area is Evidence that demands a Verdict by Josh McDowel.

I think that you would find this very interesting reading.

Peace

Mikel

Yes it is good reading, but did not prove to me one thing.

It is just like any book, the words of humans...

As for the cities being there... most writers us the world around them that they know as the basis for their works.

I would just like to point out that this thread is dealing with the accuracy of the Bible and you said,"No one has proven it accurate either."

I will say again that it has been proven accurate in many areas such as accurate historical and geographical descriptions of citys. Regardless of whether you believe the stories, this is a point of accuracy. There was debate for a long time as to whether many of the Old Testament cities had ever actually existed.

Just because it is a book that is written by men does not mean that it is not accurate any more than a book on Physics, or History is any less accurate simply because it is written by men. (after all men and women are responsable for 100% of the literature on this planet)

This thread is about the accuracy of the Bible not whether you believe the theology or not. "Here is the major topic of this string. Is the Bible Accurate? Why or why not?
This is also kinda of a poll. I am a little curious as to what people think about the Bible. "

So your why not is that ,"No one has proven it accurate either." This is what I am answering.

(I am a point by point guy) If you have read,"Evidence that demands a Verdict." You know that what I am talking about is heavily documented.

Peace

Mikel
PMEmail PosterUsers Website               View My Space Profile.
Top
reddrake79 
Posted: 27-Jul-2004, 07:38 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Braveheart Member
******

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 132
Joined: 10-Mar-2004
ZodiacRowan

Realm: oregon

male





Careful birddog or I might bite your ankles off. tongue.gif

thank you raven for bringing us back to the point (i get sidetracked easily smile.gif )

Shadow, look back at some of the earlier posts in this thread too. Between Raven and Myself we bring up some points that no one has yet addressed. These points deal heavily with accuracy. at the moment I am only remembering my own. The bible deals a lot with Science. (ignore the whole creation and evolution part of the argument) Job 26:7 says the earth is hung on nothing. When did Science discover this truth? There are many scientific facts that the Bible reveals before Science officially discovered them. Ecclesiastes 1:7 tells about the water cycle. and others, i could list them if you like.

The Bible only says that the Nephalim were Giants, your thinking of the passage that reffers to "sons of God".

elspeth, I think we have a definition problem here

Columbia Encyclopedia definition: "Organic evolution, as opposed to belief in the special creation of each individual species as an immutable form, conceives of life as having had its beginnings in a simple primordial protoplasmic mass (probably originating in the sea) from which, through the long eras of time, arose all subsequent living forms."
http://www.bartleby.com/65/ev/evolutio.html

The processes you have described are more accuratly referred to as "speciation" or "natural selection", which are fully compatible with what is OBSERVED in nature. I do not believe that biological evolution (as it is defined above) is a result of these processes and there is no evidence to say I am wrong. Where I have a problem is that evolutionists make many assumtions that are not verifiable, nor have been observed in nature.

However this argument does not prove or disprove the accuracy of the Bible since neither side can hold up conclusive proof that they are right. (except the Bible, if you believe the Bible to be accurate and not misleading)

Anyway, Like I said I get easily sidetracked tongue.gif

The following is not directed at any specific person, it is just a reminder: I notice Raven, myself and only a few others have backed up what we are saying by giving references, either Biblical or Extrabiblical.

I guess that means there is more reliable evidence for an accurate Bible then for an inaccurate. biggrin.gif

(mom always said I knew how to throw gasoline on a fire)

This post has been edited by reddrake79 on 27-Jul-2004, 07:40 PM
PMEmail Poster               
Top
PADOS 
Posted: 11-Aug-2004, 04:50 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Peasant
*

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 2
Joined: 10-Aug-2004
ZodiacBirch


male





hello everybody.

i joined the comunity only tomorrow and so I can write only today. It is an interesting discussion.

for reddrake79,

Your analysis take care only of two approach, biblic and evolutionistic. But there is a lot of different approach coming from other religion. If the god, your god, allows that there is a lot of people believing in different deities and rules it may be possible that it allows also its own followers to have a certain amount of freedom.

Bible is a Book write by men for the men. It is a collection of writing selected from a large amount and then canonised. The same thing happens to new testament.

It is important to remember that a lot of the canonising work was done in the 300 a.d. and later under the supervision of the emperor Costantino, who held council.
That means that a political power had the last word on what was canonic or not. This means an human choice based on political convenience.

Bible are right only for religious purposes and only for people who believe in that specific deity, that is not the only deity on the world.


salut
PADOS


--------------------
smile all time, even when you figth
PMEmail Poster               
Top
reddrake79 
Posted: 12-Aug-2004, 09:45 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Braveheart Member
******

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 132
Joined: 10-Mar-2004
ZodiacRowan

Realm: oregon

male





You are right Pados in that I am excluding other religions. I would expect someone who believes in another religion that says something about how the earth began to hold to those beliefs. (no mater how rediculous I may think those beliefs to be) Yet those religions are either creationistic in approach or evolutionary, or some mixture of the two.

However, The Bible may have been canonised around 300AD yet people believed the old testament millenia before that. The old Testament has been around since before many of those religions started (maybe not in written form but at least in spoken form) Many of those religion's account of creation are earily similar to what is in the Bible. (which one is right?) The fact of the matter is that no matter what you believe about the beginning of the universe it is only that a "belief". Men cannot conclusivly prove what happened without using some form of faith. (including scientists) So which one is right? They can't all be correct. I believe the Bible is the most credible source.

Pados I refer you back to the beginning of this discussion in response to your assertions about the canonization of the Bible.

BTW The God of the Bible claims to be the only deity. Not trying to stir up trouble just pointing it out. smile.gif

Here is a question dealing with accuracy.

What evidence proves that something is accurate?

PMEmail Poster               
Top
Tassiecelt 
Posted: 05-Sep-2004, 10:22 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 377
Joined: 02-Sep-2004
ZodiacOak

Realm: Tasmania, Australia

male





I believe the Bible as we have it today to be an accurate record of what God wants us to know.

It can be proven to be accurate in every way.

It is miraculous in it's writing, it's content, in it's preservation.

I once studied and believed various eastern books (the Buddhist and hindu Scriptures), I now see that only the Bible convey real Truth.

It has brought great joy, purpose and direction to my life. It has guided me through a marriage lasting 26 years and raising of five kids as well as pastoring a church.

Many may argue with it's contents, but for me - I am satisfied.


--------------------
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteMy Photo Album               
Top
MacAibhistin 
Posted: 11-Sep-2004, 12:32 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Knight of the Round Table
*******

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 166
Joined: 13-Aug-2004
ZodiacOak

Realm: northern Canada - somewhere between the treeline and civilisation

male





Well, this is an interesting discussion. I am a bit late to join it, but will offer a few thoughts. I can't help but wonder if the original question is flawed. Someone mentioned that the idea of the accuracy of the theology is not the same question as the accuracy of the literal interpretation of the Bible.

I am coming from a believer's perspective, nonetheless, it seems to me that the intent of the Bible is to reveal God and his plan for humankind. While it has great historical value, it's purpose probably was never to serve as a history of humanity. The Genesis account was written centuries, even millennia after the Adam and Eve creation supposedly happened. We know that Moses, author of Genesis, was no historian, archeologist, or scientist. So inspired by God, probably. Inspired by other creation stories popular in the Middle East, sure. Did he feel the need to provide his people with a sense of self, a sense of origin, a sense of a shared experience - sure. after all, what are well all doing on a Celtic site? We like the idea of connecting with our roots.

Okay, I am rambling. Let me cut to the chase. I don't believe the Bible was written as a historical or a scientific study. It is a collection of accounts that were written by inspired individuals. They were ultimately collected, canonised by men who, were moved likely by the Holy Spirit and the flesh. However, God has seen fit to preserve the Bible and allow it to survive to present day because it reveals who He is. It does not replace our ability to research history, geology, biology, archaeology, etc. We do not, as Christians, have to check our common sense at the door when we become a believer. At least, I hope not.

Rory
PMEmail Poster               
Top
Tassiecelt 
Posted: 12-Sep-2004, 08:09 AM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 377
Joined: 02-Sep-2004
ZodiacOak

Realm: Tasmania, Australia

male





QUOTE
I don't believe the Bible was written as a historical or a scientific study. It is a collection of accounts that were written by inspired individuals.


I agree! however, where the Bible makes a statement that is historical or scientific - I believe it is accurate and reliable.

2Pe 1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteMy Photo Album               
Top
Annham 
Posted: 12-Sep-2004, 07:13 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Seeker of Harmony
Group Icon

Group: Founder
Posts: 386
Joined: 02-Sep-2004
ZodiacHazel


female





QUOTE
The Genesis account was written centuries, even millennia after the Adam and Eve creation supposedly happened.


There is something about Genesis that makes me believe that if God inspired men to write it down, His importance was to emphasize the main point - God created the heavens & the earth & all that is here. For one thing, in Genesis, there are actually two slightly conflicting versions of the creation. Another is that Genesis is said to have been very similar to an ancient Babylonian folk tale which originated long before the Bible was written.
I tend to think it is best not to take all the details literally because in translation and telling and retelling of any story or even history before it is written down there are bound to be things that just aren't understood exactly as the original inspiree or God intended.

Anne


--------------------
“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.”

~ Dalai Lama
21st century spiritual and political leader of Tibet and Nobel Peace Prize winner (1989)
PMEmail Poster               
Top
deckers 
Posted: 13-Sep-2004, 01:05 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



World's Strongest Humor Writer
Group Icon

Group: Scotland
Posts: 303
Joined: 02-Aug-2004
ZodiacOak

Realm: Indianapolis, IN

male





I remember when I was in graduate school, I was arguing with one of my classmates about the "validity" of the Bible. He said the Bible was valid because the Bible said so. And no matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get him to see the circularity of his argument. You can't use a thing to prove itself when that very thing is called into question.

However, I am a liberal Christian. I believe in God, have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ, and attend church on a mostly-regular basis.

But I think we should make a distinction between "accurate" and "valid." While I believe that the Bible is valid and the major tenets are true, I do not believe it is ALWAYS 100%, all-of-the-time accurate.

Before you argue with me, read for yourself how Judas died. In one of the books of the Gospels, he hung himself and they buried him in the Field of Blood (isn't that what it's called?). In another, he tripped and broke his neck in the Field of Blood.

You can't hang yourself AND trip at the same time. So one method of his death must be right, which means the other isn't. Which means we run into a problem if we say the Bible is COMPLETELY accurate.

To use an absolute like that means that there must never ever be a single exception to it. And the whole Judas question is just such an exception.


Erik Deckers


--------------------
[color=blue][b]Erik Deckers
Visit my weekly humor blog
Laughing Stalk[COLOR=blue]
PMEmail PosterUsers Website               
Top
DesertRose 
Posted: 13-Sep-2004, 03:44 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline



Celtic Guardian
********

Group: Celtic Nation
Posts: 6,913
Joined: 09-Nov-2003
ZodiacAlder

Realm: The desert of Arizona

female





Erik! Just curious as I don't remember this. Where does it say that Judas tripped in a pool of blood? I don't believe I have ever read that. Doesn't mean it ain't so in the Bible. I just don't remember it saying so. Thanks! smile.gif
PMEmail PosterUsers WebsiteMy Photo Album               
Top
Shadows 
Posted: 13-Sep-2004, 04:38 PM
Quote Post

Member is Offline





Reader of souls, vision seeker, TROLL
Group Icon

Group: Super Moderator
Posts: 4,157
Joined: 20-Jun-2003
ZodiacHolly

Realm: The frontier of Penn's Woods

male





He said " tripped and broke his neck in the field of blood " not tripped in a field of blood.


Inspiration ( god's word ) can come from many places and people... to think that the christian bible is the only source for his word leaves us in a very controled situation. The leaders of the "church" have and will continue to change the words and meanings of the original texts.

If you believe this, or not, effects me in no way... I have seen what has and is being done.

This blind belief and behavior reminds me of those that are waging war against us right now!

The creator speaks to people in many ways and who is to say which is right ( I feel thay all are ) . To close one's mind to one avenue with the total exclusion of all others leaves one in disharmony with the world.

Live , Learn, Teach, Listen and most of all LOVE!
PMEmail PosterUsers Website My Photo Album               
Top
0 User(s) are reading this topic (0 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)
0 Members:

Reply to this topicStart new topicStart Poll

 








Celtic RadioTM broadcasts through Live365.com and StreamLicensing.com which are officially licensed under SoundExchange, ASCAP, BMI, SESAC and SOCAN.
©2014 Celtic Radio Network, Highlander Radio, Celtic Moon, Celtic Dance, Ye O' Celtic Pub and Celt-Rock-Radio.
All rights and trademarks reserved. Read our Privacy Policy.
Celtic Graphics ©2014, Cari Buziak


Link to CelticRadio.net!
Link to CelticRadio.net
View Broadcast Status and Statistics!

Best Viewed With IE 8.0 (1680 x 1050 Resolution), Javascript & Cookies Enabled.


[Home] [Top]

Celtic Hearts Gallery | Celtic Mates Dating | My Celtic Friends | Celtic Music Radio | Family Heraldry | Medival Kingdom | Top Celtic Sites | Web Celt Blog | Video Celt