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> Accurate Bible?, controversy
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Shadows 
Posted: 24-Feb-2005, 10:23 PM
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[QOUTE]and it was pitiful seeing him realize how he'd wasted a lifetime being selfish, godless & cruel to those who needed him most. The regret broke his heart, but at least he found God's forgiveness before it was too late.[/QUOTE]

Because one does not believe in the bible as gods word does not make one selfish, godless and cruel... some of the nicest folks I know are not christian and some of the ones who claim to be are not so nice.


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susieq76 
Posted: 25-Feb-2005, 10:52 AM
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Very, very true Shadows. Everyone matters, and they and their beliefs should be respected.


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Shadows 
Posted: 25-Feb-2005, 12:03 PM
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Amen, Blessed BE!
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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 25-Feb-2005, 12:58 PM
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Just a short addition....I tend to think that Siobhan adressed her statement to her grandfather's "case"; I don't think she wanted to generalise it.
It's more than obvious that noone who follows his belief is "godless" (would be a contradiction, no?), nor selfish or cruel....attitudes no belief I know supports.
I second that everyone and his beliefs have to be respected.
People take different roads through life. Just because they're not following your road doesn't mean they've gotten "lost".


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Shadows 
Posted: 25-Feb-2005, 01:30 PM
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We should get back on track of this topic...

Bible as accurate!

Historical references in my opinion in the bible are correct for the most part ( it is the beginins of Judism that first mentioned in the bible, not mankind ) , it is the devine spiritual references as being from the creator that cause me to question the book. Most of the philosophies declared by this book were not new to the world, just to that part of the world!

If one were to study the religions of the world and the content of what they proclaim they would see we are all on the same path...just not in agreement with how, why and who delivered the message.

Again I mention the many, many sects of christianity as an example of the diversity of beliefs even among those who claim to be of the same faith; Judism has the same variations, as well as most major religions of the world. It is all in the interpretation, by "MAN" in what is believed and in who they believe sent the message. I believe the message is much older then the times of Jesu... he just was reminding those of the time of the intent and purpose of life. What we learn from all religions seems to me to be the same message, just the fevor , intensity, and zeal make the difference. You have Zealots, evangelists, bible beaters, new world, and all other types of believers all compeating for the monies, souls, and moral support that is needed to make such beliefs a secular thing, I believe that such things are between a soul ( man/woman ) and their god!
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reddrake79 
Posted: 25-Feb-2005, 07:28 PM
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What are the sects you are refering to? If you are talking about the different denominations, i.e baptist, evangelical, etc. then you are right about there being many of them. However, they should agree, and all religions that use the Bible, should agree about the Bible's message.
This is the short version. All men & women have sinned (gone against God at some point). A Holy God cannot be around sin. Humans cannot overcome this problem. Only bloodshed can overcome this (first through sacrifice of an animal, finally throught the Last sacrifice of sinless Jesus) All Men & Women can get to heaven if they merely accept that Jesus Died for their sins. This is what the Bible teaches. The message is much older than Jesus (Genesis 1:1 "in the beginning") All "sects" of Christianity will agree to this basic statement. Others might add more to it, but that is not the focus of this string.

I thing it is safe to say that every other religion out there does not agree with the above statement.

Another question is this, what do we mean by respect. We talk alot about it, especially in this string, but what is it. If I said the sky was green, I would probably be ridiculed or accused of taking drugs. I would however be wrong. Some one could respect this by coming to me and saying that although he didn't see the sky as being green he could see why I did. Does this help me? NO. I am still wrong no matter what anyone says. Another way of respecting me is telling me simply that there is evidence to the contrary and then show me. Does this help me? YES. Now I know the truth of the matter.

The Bible claims to be truth. Not just simply a truth but THE truth. Jesus says "I am THE way, THE truth, and THE Life. No one can come to the Father except through me." John 14:6 (emphasis mine) That is why I ask what does it mean to respect someone. If you believe they are wrong then show them the right way. Most poeple, when they say respect they mean "Leave me alone". Now, there is a right way and a wrong way about aproaching people. Respect, as my mother taught me, is listening to someone, aknowledging when they have a good point, thinking aobut the point, and answering the point they brought up.

Here is a question specifically for shadows.

Why do the creator author references bother you?

If we take Genesis 1 at face value, God made man and had a relationship with him. Genesis talks about God walking in the Garden with Adam, and that He came looking for Adam. Adam sinned and this broke the relationship with God. If God is interested in a relationship with people, wouldn't it make sense that He would provide for a way to overcome that broken relationship?


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Shadows 
Posted: 26-Feb-2005, 06:08 PM
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I RESPECT that you believe the bible is 100% accurate but I do not believe it so because it was written by men...

I do not fault the messages in the STORIES that it tells, yes there are historical sites mentioned, and places found that fit the bible, but look at any work of literature ( either fiction or not ) and you will find places and people that fit the story. I think the books that are in the bible are ther because a group of clerics wanted a way to the means of controling the masses... the books that were excluded did not fit the program and were tossed aside. Some conflicted with the others and were therfor deemed wrong and left out ( again because they did not fit the program ). I know I will never change your mind, nor you mine on these matters that is why I said let us get back on topic and discuss what is and what might not be accurate in the bible. One issue is ...I do not believe the world to only be 10,000 years old as the timeline in the bible so claims... the evidence is not in it's favor here.

I have never disclaimed a creator, but I do not accept the one presented in this collection of books. As in all nature it takes both ying and yang, male and female, the cup and the blade to make life happen.

I do not believe in HELL, I do believe that a spirit will continue to exist until it reaches the right combination of love, understanding, patience with other spirits, and the ability to see true right from wrong, then and only then will it be absorbed into the universal consciousness; the bible contains the same ideals of these as do the many other writtings of other more ancient religions. In my opinion no one religion can claim to be right... it is the following of ones beliefs that makes one endeared to god.
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 01-Mar-2005, 01:44 PM
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"I do not believe in HELL, I do believe that a spirit will continue to exist until it reaches the right combination of love, understanding, patience with other spirits, and the ability to see true right from wrong, then and only then will it be absorbed into the universal consciousness...'

May I ask on what evidence you base this belief?

SB


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reddrake79 
Posted: 03-Mar-2005, 12:39 PM
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Actually the evidence, when looked at objectivly, points to an indertiminate age for the earth. What evidence do you base an old age for the earth on? If the answer is radiometric dating I would ask you to look earlier in this post as we covered that topic. All observed processes and laws of nature could have culminated in the world we see in only a few thousand years, unless you believe in the theory of biological evolution (which has not been observed) in which you need trillions of years.

Whenever the Bible has been read by the average man, it has resulted in a revolution not control. The catholics tried to control people by refusing to translate it into the common language of the day. Martin luther translated the Bible into German and Europe is confronted with the protestant reformation. Even before Martin Luther there were pockets of resistance to catholicism led by men who translated the Bible into the common language Wycliff, Calvin, etc. The Bible ultimatly results in freedom not control.

Also as far as works of literature, NONE of them even claim to be written by God. Only the Bible makes that claim, 2 timothy 3:16.

To make that claim without some kind of baking is ridiculous. Because, people would have the natural inclination that you have to disbelieve such a claim. Yet the authors were ready to be killed for that claim. If they were lying, I don't think they would have gone willingly to death when it coul dhave been avoided.
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Siobhan Blues 
Posted: 05-Mar-2005, 10:45 PM
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QUOTE (gaberlunzie @ 25-Feb-2005, 12:58 PM)
Just a short addition....I tend to think that Siobhan adressed her statement to her grandfather's "case"; I don't think she wanted to generalise it.
It's more than obvious that noone who follows his belief is "godless" (would be a contradiction, no?), nor selfish or cruel....attitudes no belief I know supports...

That is exactly what I meant. Thank you, G.
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