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> Stonehendge, age-old debate
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Lyra Luminara 
Posted: 21-Jun-2004, 09:44 PM
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Always wanted to go there...anyone been?
Just wanted to know everyone's take on it. Personally, I think that clearly it was a ritual area for the druids practicing the old ways. Sort of like a big altar...with power lines linked to Glastenbury...supposebly Avalon itself.


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barddas 
Posted: 22-Jun-2004, 02:50 PM
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QUOTE (Lyra Luminara @ 21-Jun-2004, 10:44 PM)
Always wanted to go there...anyone been?
Just wanted to know everyone's take on it. Personally, I think that clearly it was a ritual area for the druids practicing the old ways. Sort of like a big altar...with power lines linked to Glastenbury...supposebly Avalon itself.

I went for a visit to Stonehenge, Salisbury last April. It is a beautiful landscape, across the road are several fields of Connola(rapeseed) that is the most stunning color yellow! It is so vivid that it almost hurts your eyes! Across the other road there are grazing fields for sheep. And in those fields the are several barrows, or mounds. With all the lore of Stonehenge you can't help but feel some magickal feeling being there. It is something I dreamt about since I was a small child.
It's amazing to think that those stone came from 250 miles away in Wales. When you see them in person, you know that this thing was something special and important, for that amount of work to have been done.



They ( park board) are currently in the begining works to restore the area to a totally natural landscape. Meaning the roads will be taken out. But, not to worry. They will be tunneling under where the roads currently are and will take them out once the tunnels are completed.


I did not make it to Glastonbury. sad.gif I really wanted to see the Tor, and Chalice well. The supposed location of Avalon, when the area was partially covered by water.

Amazing place indeed.

Cheers

BTW-
Here is a link I found with some nice photos of the area....ENJOY!

Magical places of England


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Ceciliastar1 
Posted: 22-Jun-2004, 02:57 PM
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I've never been there, but the pictures you see of it are so beautiful! I don't know what they are used for but it does seem like it would be some religious reason.

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barddas 
Posted: 23-Jun-2004, 01:18 PM
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An article from DiscoveryChannel.com




Stonehenge: Built by Welshmen?
By Jennifer Viegas, Discovery News




June 18, 2004 ? At least three of the builders of Stonehenge were from Wales, according to archaeologists who found the builders' grave close to the Stonehenge site, and have linked the remains to stones used in the construction of the Salisbury Plain monument.

The finding, which comes just before Sunday's summer solstice, not only sheds light on Stonehenge's origins, but also provides clues to prehistoric migration patterns within Europe following the Stone Age, which was the earliest known period in human culture.

Most historians believe that Stonehenge served as a temple to the gods of the sun and moon.

The Welshmen's bones originally were spotted last year next to a water pipe trench during routine road improvement work in Boscombe Down, which is very close to Stonehenge.

Later excavation work by Wessex Archaeology revealed that the bones were part of a mass, 2,300-year-old grave that contained eight decorated pots, arrowheads, flint tools, a boar's tusk, an ornamental bone toggle, and the remains of seven individuals whose skull similarities led researchers to believe were related.

The remains included a man who died between the ages of 35 and 45, two other men between the ages of 25 and 30, a male teenager who died at around 15 to 18, and three young children between the ages of two and seven.

Oxygen isotope analysis was conducted on the teeth of the adults, who have been nicknamed the Boscombe Bowmen. Such isotopes become imbedded in tooth enamel from drinking water. Their profile can indicate the person's distance away from the sea at certain periods in time reflective of tooth development, the person's location above sea level, and even general information about the climate that existed during the individual's lifetime, according to the Wessex Archaeology website.

"Ideally, as with the Boscombe Bowmen, strontium isotope analysis is used in conjunction with other lines of evidence such as oxygen isotope analysis to constrain possible areas where an individual could have spent their childhood and/or rule out areas where the tooth data does not match environmental values," said Jane Evans of the British Geological Survey.

She believes the recent find "provides a remarkable picture of prehistoric migration" from Wales to Salisbury.

The tooth study yielded a high proportion of strontium isotope, which is associated with high radioactivity. This limited the remains' point of origin to Cornwall, the Isle of Man, the northwest of England, parts of the Scottish highlands, and Wales. Climate considerations ruled out all but the Lake District and Wales.

Since geological studies indicate that the earliest bluestones of Stonehenge came from the Preseli Hills of southwest Wales, archaeologists who worked on the excavation are almost certain that the individuals in the grave were Welsh and that they were involved in the construction of the prehistoric monument.

Andrew Fitzpatrick of Wessex Archaeology told Discovery News that it would be "a phenomenal coincidence" if the origin of the men and the stones were not linked.

He added, "The grave contents do not help in our understanding of how the temple worked, but they put a human face on it."

The mass grave dates to around the same time and place of the Amesbury Archer, a man from Central Europe who was given the richest burial of the age in Europe. He was found a few years ago, and his grave contained pots, metalworking tools, and the earliest known gold objects in Britain.

Although metalworking technology existed during certain phases of Stonehenge's construction, Fitzpatrick said, "The Welsh individuals brought the stones to the site purely with sweat, blood, and tears."

This must have been no easy task, as the remains for the oldest man in the grave indicate that he sustained a severe leg break during his lifetime that likely made his leg shorter and caused him to limp.

"Now we must ask ourselves why these people felt moved to carry stones over such a great distance," Fizpatrick said. "Stonehenge, save for its initial wooden monument, was not remarkable until the stones arrived, so we believe that the site in Wales must have been of some importance to the people of the time."

He believes it is possible that the stone circle was brought from Wales and reconstructed at Stonehenge. A similar monument does exist in the Preseli Hills, but a direct link between the two stone circles has yet to be made.

The Boscombe Bowmen and all of the other recent archaeological finds will be on public display from July 3 through Aug. 30 at the Salisbury Museum in England.
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Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 
Posted: 23-Jun-2004, 07:25 PM
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One of the few certainties about the history of Stonehenge is that it was not built by the Druids (although it certainly may have been used by them--there is no real evidence either way). Rather, as stated by English Heritage:
QUOTE
The stones were built by three different cultures, Windmill, First Wessex and the Beakers ? so named because when they buried their dead they had their pots interred with them.

English Heritage Stonehenge FAQ
The burial site reported by Barddas is extremely interesting, and should help put a human face on those who were likely associated with its building.



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barddas 
Posted: 24-Jun-2004, 02:49 PM
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More Stonehenge in the news. This is a little rolleyes.gif




Western Daily Press



THEY'VE GIVEN US LEEKS, LAVA BREAD, AND MAX BOYCE. NOW, IN RETURN, THE WELSH WANT OUR STONEHENGE!
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09:30 - 24 June 2004
The Welsh went to war last night to demand the return of the West's most famous landmark, Stonehenge. Battle lines were drawn after the leader of Welsh pagans said the Wiltshire monument was made of Welsh stone by Welshmen and should be brought across the Bristol Channel.
But flying the cross of St George for our Stonehenge was English Heritage, who slapped a "hands off" warning to the Welsh and pointed out the builders of Stonehenge, although Welsh, chose to transport the great stones halfway across Britain to Salisbury Plain, rather than erect it in Wales.
The row was sparked after Dr Robyn Lewis, the ceremonial leader of the Gorsedd of Bards, bizarrely likened his cause to that of the return of the Stone of Scone to Scotland and renewed calls for the Elgin Marbles to be returned to Greece. The archdruid said the builders of Stonehenge were born and grew up in Wales, and emigrated to Wiltshire to complete their task.The bodies of a fami
The bodies of a family of seven, found in a 4,300-year-old grave on Boscombe Down, near Stonehenge, have thrown up intriguing archaeological evidence that has been seized on by Dr Lewis, the leader of the National Eisteddfod.
Tests on the family's teeth showed they lived in a region with high levels of radioactive rock, which could either be the Preseli hills or in Scotland. Links between the Preseli mountains in south-west Wales and Stonehenge have long been recognised: the distinctive bluestone that many of the most important stones are carved from comes from one or two mountains in the remote Pembrokeshire range.
How ancient man managed to transport the huge rocks more than 180 miles to south Wiltshire has long baffled historians, but Dr Lewis believes the stone should be dismantled and returned.
In a letter Dr Lewis said: "Since the Stone of Destiny was returned to Scotland a few years since and it is clearly only a matter of time until the Elgin Marbles are returned to Greece, may I request that Stonehenge be returned to Wales?" He said he was staking an official claim "on behalf of my fellow druids, bards and the rest of my Welsh compatriots".
However, critics pointed out the builders of Stonehenge were not Welsh because Wales did not exist then, and the Stone of Destiny and Elgin Marbles were taken from their original locations by the English centuries after being carved.
A spokesman for English Heritage, which manages the stones, said: "When Stonehenge was built more than 3,500 years ago, neither Wales nor England existed as nations. The people who lived on the island had tribal identities, but no national sense of identity." He said the Preseli mountains in Wales were the source of the bluestones which were arranged in a ring and horseshoe within the great circle and horseshoe of sarsen stones from Marlborough Downs.He said: "The bluesto
He said: "The bluestones were quarried, not confiscated, to create Stonehenge, just as Portland stone stone was quarried for cathedrals. Dismantling Stonehenge to return the bluestones to the quarry would make as much sense as dismantling our cathedrals and returning their stones to the quarries.
"Stonehenge will remain where it is and always has been."
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greenldydragon 
Posted: 23-Oct-2004, 02:24 PM
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Stonehenge is such a facinating place. I agree that it must have meant something of great importance to the people who built it. Why else would they have brought stone so far from where it orignally had been? The grave of the Welsh family is interesting, and does make you think of stonehenge as more of a real thing, that had to be made by humans.


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Annabelle 
Posted: 24-Oct-2004, 05:17 PM
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Stonehendge is a place of great interest. I was there a year ago for Christmas and I went to see it on the Winter solice. The Wicca were having their spiritual services that were very different. I'd never seen a ceremony like that before. It would have been nice to understand what I was watching. The Discovery channnel was there filming it.

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