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maisky 
Posted: 10-Dec-2004, 12:15 PM
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This summarizes it nicely:

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maisky 
Posted: 10-Dec-2004, 12:16 PM
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and this:

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Shamalama 
Posted: 13-Dec-2004, 10:09 AM
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This ArmorGate business is simply a media event; nothing more.

Most U.S. military vehicles have required some kind of armor upgrade to withstand the volleys of RPGs and large-munition roadside bombs the Iraq conflict has produced. The Stryker units have what looks like steel grating around them to throw up an anti-RPG "fence," photos of Bradleys show what looks like reactive armor kits in place, and even the mighty Abrams appear to have been modified with extra plating. "Up-armoring" is taking place even though the media says it ain't so.

More armor is not a magical solution, never has been. It is represents a trade-off between protection and mobility. The preference for less armor can be seen today with at least some Marines in Fallujah. They point out that up-armoring their Humvees reduces the ability to see threats coming. Of course this is not mentioned by the embedded reporters. Even so-called up-armored Humvees will shred if hit by a well-placed RPG.

It's odd that the mainstream media has failed to note that the criticism of the failure to get armor kits to the troops comes primarily from members of the party whose leaders voted against appropriations to fund the war. They can't have it both ways - or can they?

Which brings me to this article:

QUOTE


Report: Most Skyscrapers Still Not 'Up Armored'

(2004-12-10) -- More than three years after terrorists crashed commercial airliners into the World Trade Center, most skyscrapers still the lack armor plating that could help reduce casualties in a future attack, according to a report released by Congress.

"The Bush administration has devoted almost zero resources to up-armoring our nation's tallest buildings," said an unnamed official who had seen parts of the report. "We have anecdotal evidence of stock brokers dragging dumpsters into their offices and actually working inside the dumpster to get that extra layer of protection."

The report's release comes just days after Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faced a spontaneous question from a soldier in Kuwait about the difficulty of securing armor for Humvees.

"If each tall building were blanketed with steel, America would finally be safe," the official said. "The terrorists would have to give up, just like they would be stymied if all military vehicles were up-armored. There's nothing they could do to hurt us then."

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Shamalama 
Posted: 22-Dec-2004, 02:45 PM
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In a Sunday night ABC story, the brother and mother of soldiers killed in Iraq denounced Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld for having an auto-pen machine sign his letters of condolence. The brother charged that Rumsfeld doesn't "care about the troops." The mother claimed "it personally shows me how callous and unfeeling he is and our government is." World News Tonight/Sunday anchor Terry Moran portrayed the two as representative of how "some military families" are "upset" with Rumsfeld.

Is there any chance that these two "average Americans" somehow had their own agenda? What did ABC not tell us?

Ivan Medina, the brother of the late Irving Medina, spoke in June at a pro-Fahrenheit 9/11 publicity event. In May she took part in an anti-Rumsfeld protest outside of West Point where he charged: "This government lied to the military soldiers. Bush went to war to settle a family vendetta."

Sue Niederer, the mother of the late Seth Dvorin, sported a "President Bush: You Killed My Son" T-shirt when she was arrested for disrupting a September speech by First Lady Laura Bush. Earlier, in a May interview with the liberal Counterpunch web site, she urged harm to President Bush.

Now how is it that little 'ole me can discover this information but ABC News couldn't? Or did ABC simply go out and find two families that they knew already had strong anti-Bush opinions, and did nothing to balance their "story"?

Would ABC News, and anchor Terry Moran, consider airing the stories of two families that support the rebuilding of Iraq and/or think Bush is doing a good job? You know the answer as well as I do.

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maisky 
Posted: 23-Dec-2004, 08:51 AM
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QUOTE
Would ABC News, and anchor Terry Moran, consider airing the stories of two families that support the rebuilding of Iraq and/or think Bush is doing a good job? You know the answer as well as I do.

The problem with this is that a growing majority of Americans do NOT think he is doing a good job.
Rummy needs to be replaced. There is nothing like having an insensitive amateur in charge of the military. (aren't you glad I used "amateur"?)
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Shamalama 
Posted: 23-Dec-2004, 10:52 AM
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So what's wrong with being an insensitive amateur? Heck, I've been living that way for decades! laugh.gif
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MDF3530 
  Posted: 23-Dec-2004, 11:09 AM
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I was appalled when Dubya appointed Rummy Secretary of Defense. When he did, he put the neo-con chickenhawk think tank Defense Policy Board Institute, who'd been screaming "IRAQ! IRAQ! IRAQ!" since the end of the first Gulf War in charge of the military.


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maisky 
Posted: 23-Dec-2004, 04:24 PM
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QUOTE (Shamalama @ 23-Dec-2004, 09:52 AM)
So what's wrong with being an insensitive amateur? Heck, I've been living that way for decades! laugh.gif

When YOU do it, thousands of people don't die! It's CUTE when YOU do it. biggrin.gif
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Shamalama 
Posted: 27-Dec-2004, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (MDF3530 @ 23-Dec-2004, 11:09 AM)

I was appalled when Dubya appointed Rummy The Spawn Of Satan . . .

What is it about the liberals and Rummy?

He has rebuilt the U.S. military, which has freed 50 million people from tyranny, decimated al Qaeda, and won two wars. None of his predecessors back to James V. Forrestal, appointed by President Truman, can claim anything approaching such a record.

From the very beginning of his tenure, Mr. Rumsfeld has spearheaded the Pentagon?s shift from a Cold War-era, European- and Northeast Asian-theater force into one better positioned to fight the wars of the 21st century. After the large drawdowns of the 1990s, Mr. Rumsfeld?s efforts to get uniformed personnel out of civilian Pentagon jobs boosted Army troop levels by 30,000. None of his critics concede it, but those 30,000 alleviated the need for a draft.

Mr. Rumsfeld has overseen the destruction of al Qaeda, the freeing of those 50 million from the yoke of dictatorship and the bolstering of the prospects of countless others. In Afghanistan, the swift assault against the Taliban unseated one of the world?s most cruel regimes and paved the way for democracy. It?s fun for the liberals to lose sight of how momentous an accomplishment that is.

After Afghanistan, Mr. Rumsfeld directed the manhunt to capture or kill al Qaeda?s leadership. To date, three-quarters are dead or in prison. Osama bin Laden is in hiding and appears to have been rendered impotent

It's well-documented that the liberals dislike Rummy because they dislike the war itself. And they dislike the war simply because Bush started it. There is absolutely no doubt that if Gore had won in 2000 and proceeded the same as Bush that this "liberation event" would be hailed in the media as one of the greatest moments in US history.
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MDF3530 
  Posted: 27-Dec-2004, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Shamalama @ 27-Dec-2004, 10:21 AM)
QUOTE (MDF3530 @ 23-Dec-2004, 11:09 AM)

I was appalled when Dubya appointed Rummy The Spawn Of Satan . . .

What is it about the liberals and Rummy?

He has rebuilt the U.S. military, which has freed 50 million people from tyranny, decimated al Qaeda, and won two wars. None of his predecessors back to James V. Forrestal, appointed by President Truman, can claim anything approaching such a record.

From the very beginning of his tenure, Mr. Rumsfeld has spearheaded the Pentagon?s shift from a Cold War-era, European- and Northeast Asian-theater force into one better positioned to fight the wars of the 21st century. After the large drawdowns of the 1990s, Mr. Rumsfeld?s efforts to get uniformed personnel out of civilian Pentagon jobs boosted Army troop levels by 30,000. None of his critics concede it, but those 30,000 alleviated the need for a draft.

Mr. Rumsfeld has overseen the destruction of al Qaeda, the freeing of those 50 million from the yoke of dictatorship and the bolstering of the prospects of countless others. In Afghanistan, the swift assault against the Taliban unseated one of the world?s most cruel regimes and paved the way for democracy. It?s fun for the liberals to lose sight of how momentous an accomplishment that is.

After Afghanistan, Mr. Rumsfeld directed the manhunt to capture or kill al Qaeda?s leadership. To date, three-quarters are dead or in prison. Osama bin Laden is in hiding and appears to have been rendered impotent

It's well-documented that the liberals dislike Rummy because they dislike the war itself. And they dislike the war simply because Bush started it. There is absolutely no doubt that if Gore had won in 2000 and proceeded the same as Bush that this "liberation event" would be hailed in the media as one of the greatest moments in US history.

First:

I did NOT call Rummy the "Spawn of Satan". That title is reserved for Dubya biggrin.gif .

Second:

We are NOT winning in Iraq. Just ask the families of soldiers who've been killed over there. I spoke yesterday to a cousin of mine who is in the Marines and will be going to Iraq in the next year or so. He admitted to me that Dubya made a classic military blunder: getting involved in a land war in Asia.

Third:

They're doing a great job in Afghanistan with CLINTON'S military. The military is using GPS technology for their bomb and missile guidance systems, which was put in place during the CLINTON administration. Rumor has it that Clinton got the idea when his brother Roger told him about having Lo-Jack installed on his car.
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Swanny 
Posted: 28-Dec-2004, 08:22 AM
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I've been kind of laying low on this thread but.....

QUOTE
Dubya made a classic military blunder: getting involved in a land war in Asia.


Can't you find better documentation than a work of children's fiction (The Princess Bride). Probably one of the best motion pictures ever, but none the less a work of fiction. Heck, that's nearly as bad as quoting the Washington Post or Fox News Net.

"Pirates are good!!!" biggrin.gif


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Shamalama 
Posted: 28-Dec-2004, 08:54 AM
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MDF3530: "We are NOT winning in Iraq. Just ask the families of soldiers who've been killed over there."

We are winning in Iraq. Here is part of the transcript from Rummy's recent visit to Iraq. Now everyone knows about the media-planted question about lack of armor, but did ANY of the major media outlets post this part of Rummy's visit:

QUOTE

UNIDENTIFIED SOLDIER: Everything we do good, no matter whether it?s helping a little kid or building a new school, the public affairs sends out the message that the media doesn?t pick up on. How do we win the propaganda war?

RUMSFELD: That does not sound like a question that was planted by the press. That happens sometimes. (Laughter.)

RUMSFELD: Everything we do here is harder because of television stations like Al-Jazeera and Al-Arabia and the constant negative approach. You don?t hear about the schools that are open, and the hospitals that are open, and the clinics that are open, and the fact that the stock market is open and the Iraqi currency is steady and the fact that there have been something like 140,000 refugees coming from other countries back into this country. They?re voting with their feet because they believe this is a country of the future. You don?t read about that. You read about every single negative thing that anyone can find to report. I was talking to a group of congressmen and senators the other day, and there were a couple of them who had negative things to say and they were in the press in five minutes. There were 15 or 20 that had positive things to say about what?s going on in Iraq and they couldn?t get on television. Television just said we?re not interested. That?s just ? sorry. So it is, I guess, what?s news has to be bad news.


Lance Frizzell is a 2nd Lt Medical Platoon Leader with the Tennessee National Guard 278th Regimental Combat Team, and currently serving in Northern Iraq. He also runs a blog out of Iraq
( http://iraq.billhobbs.com/ ) . What does he say about the war in Iraq?

QUOTE

The putrid system we are rolling back here is just as insideous as fascism in WWII and even communism during the Cold War.


QUOTE

I think Tony Blair is probably the best thing to come out of England since these guys [the Rolling Stones].


QUOTE

The level of commitment and sacrifice displayed by the Iraqi citizens who openly support us is nothing short of amazing. The vast majority of Iraqis support what we are doing but for some it is a life or death proposition to publicly support liberty as well as free and open elections for Iraq. The MSM [mainstream media] doesn't do much to spotlight these folks but they are here and they are patriots. And just like our original patriots, they sometimes die for their country's future.


I will also DARE anyone here to visit http://chrenkoff.blogspot.com/2004/12/good...aq-part-17.html and try to find any falsehoods in this guy's blog about the good news coming out of Iraq daily. Yes, this guy is a conservative, but facts are facts and are neither liberal nor conservative. All facts presented are backed up with references, and they tend to show that wonderful things are happening in Iraq on almost a daily basis. None of these facts are ever discussed in the mainstream media - why?

So "yes" we are winning in Iraq, and I understand that it makes you very angry.

MDF3530: "...CLINTON'S military..."

?!?!

OK, the first use of GPS-guided bombs and missles was in Kosovo in 1999. GPS navigation was first used in the Gulf War in 1990. Considering that it usually takes about 10 years of research and development prior to any deployment, I don't see how these technologies were Clinton's.

When the Clinton Administration presented its defense budget request for fiscal years 1998 through 2002 it was inadequate to fund the current defense policy, much less any future policies - and certainly nowhere close to funding any major conflict. Clinton's defense budgets were lower (in percentage or in growth) than his predecessors.

Defense Secretary Les Aspin had earlier called the lower funding "the first truly post-cold War budget", which really meant "yep, we going to start spending a lot less for defense". Here you can argue whether we, after the end of the Cold War, actually needed to spend as much as we did earlier. Some say yes, and some say no. Clinton needed the money for social engineering projects, which is typical of the liberal philosophy. Different philosophies have different opinions on "what's most important" for the country.

I have to give Clinton credit in that he did spend a few dollars for research, both new and continued (F-22, JSF, BMD programs). But he also cut the total numbers of both active duty and Guard and Reserve forces.

But "Clinton's military"? Nah. The military is it's own beast, simply supported or burdened by the purse strings of it's figurehead Commander In Chief. The CiC simply gives orders - the military figures out the best way to do the job. Do you think FDR figured out and planned the Normandy invasion?
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Shamalama 
Posted: 28-Dec-2004, 09:37 AM
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OK, this is not "Media Bias", but is rather "Academic Bias". But since they're both populated primarily by leftists I will post it here.

The January issue of the Duke University "Commentary" is out, and it contains a disturbing piece (no link is available yet, but I'm still looking for it) by two Duke University graduate students, Eric Adler and Jack Langer called "The Intifada Comes to Duke."

The authors are referring to Duke's recent hosting of the annual conference of the Palestine Solidarity Movement (PSM). One of PSM's stated principles is that it refuses to denounce any terrorist act committed by Palestinians. Yep - refuses to denounce any terrorist act committed by Palestinians.

One of the scheduled speakers at the Duke conference, Charles Carlson, has openly called for lethal attacks against Israelis, saying "each wedding, Passover celebration, or bar mitzvah [in Israel] is a potential military target." Wow, this is a nice guy.

One PSM organizer, Fadi Kiblawi has written of his urge to "strap a bomb to his chest and kill those Zionist racists."

Another spokesperson, Hatem Bazian has called for "an intifada in this country."

None of this was of concern to Duke president Richard Brodhead. He found the decision to host the pro-terror organization to be "an easy one" given "the importance of the principle free expression." It is true that after the PSM's statements and deeds were spelled out in detail for Brodhead, he modified his position. Now the "deepest" reason for hosting the conference was no longer free speech, but "the principle of education through dialogue."

The dialogue, as Adler and Langer show, was a one-sided and darkly anti-Semitic affair. Keynote speaker Mazin Qumsiyeh (a Yale professor of genetics) presented a short history of the virulent Zionist "disease."

At a workshop, Huweida Arraf of the International Solidarity Movement (ISM) urged students to join her group, which she acknowledged cooperates with Hamas and Islamic Jihad, and offered them tips on how to enter Israel surreptitiously. Thus, in the name of dialogue, did Duke University assist in the recruitment of accomplices to terrorism.

OK, now the bias.

Take everything above and substitute:

- "Klu Klux Klan" for "Palestine Solidarity Movement"
- "lynching" for "terrorist act committed by Palestinians"
- "load the shotgun and head for the ghetto" for "strap a bomb to his chest and kill those Zionist racists"
- "kill all the (insert the n-word here) " for "an intifada in this country"
- "African subhuman" for "Zionist disease"
- "hide in the shadows of a predominately black church" for "enter Israel surreptitiously"

Do you believe that Duke president Richard Brodhead would still claim "the importance of the principle free expression" or "the principle of education through dialogue" about a KKK rally at Duke University?
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maisky 
Posted: 28-Dec-2004, 10:55 AM
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Don't be so narrow, sir! Duke ALSO hosts PRO jewish groups. Shucks, they even host those radical CHRISTIANS and military recruiters on campus. laugh.gif
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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 28-Dec-2004, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (maisky @ 28-Dec-2004, 10:55 AM)
Don't be so narrow, sir!  Duke ALSO hosts PRO jewish groups.  Shucks, they even host those radical CHRISTIANS and military recruiters on campus. laugh.gif

While Brother Maisky is being sarcastic (at least I'm fairly sure he is unsure.gif ) I still have to ask the question: Which of the groups Maisky mentioned is advocating "Straping a Bomb" to themselves and killing people with the "Zionist disease"?


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