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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 15-Feb-2004, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Feb 15 2004, 10:28 PM)
a crime is still a crime though. Not saying other countries are innocent but a crime to combat a crime is not the way. I mean if someone say killed a family member or someone close to you and then you turned around and killed them would you not also be guilty of the crime of murder?

I am not going into this Death Penalty again.

You already know my views on that. wink.gif


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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 12:21 AM
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I'm not even talking the DP here. I am talking about you specifically. If you killed someone who killed a member of your family or a close friend would you not also be guilty of murder? Well no different for a country. If you're attacked there are both legal ways and illegal ways to deal with justice. On the war on terrorism I might agree action was needed cause justice can't be served on a coward hiding out in caves. But Saddam wasn't hiding in some caves when the war started. He was there and except for Kuwait back on 90 as far as I know he had not attacked anyone outside his own country. Now inside is another matter and is a matter for the Iraqie people to deal with not any other country. And Bush is failing on his case of WMD so this is starting to prove he had no case even for a preemptive strike. And even thern a preemptive strike would be a crime against peace.
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 01:15 AM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Feb 16 2004, 12:21 AM)
I'm not even talking the DP here. I am talking about you specifically. If you killed someone who killed a member of your family or a close friend would you not also be guilty of murder? Well no different for a country. If you're attacked there are both legal ways and illegal ways to deal with justice. On the war on terrorism I might agree action was needed cause justice can't be served on a coward hiding out in caves. But Saddam wasn't hiding in some caves when the war started. He was there and except for Kuwait back on 90 as far as I know he had not attacked anyone outside his own country. Now inside is another matter and is a matter for the Iraqie people to deal with not any other country. And Bush is failing on his case of WMD so this is starting to prove he had no case even for a preemptive strike. And even thern a preemptive strike would be a crime against peace.

Since this is not on the DP subject, I will respond. wink.gif

If someone was to intentionally kill my Wife while I was there, my answer would be easy. YES, in a heartbeat.

If someone was to intentionally kill my Wife while I was not there, I really couldn't answer that but probably.

If someone was to intentionally kill anyone while I was there, my answer would be easy. YES.

If someone was to intentionally kill anyone while I was not there, Probably not, but if I could catch them personally and was able to turn them over to the law, I would turn them over. If they even try to kill me in the process, then Yes I would kill them.

I cannot believe that you would think that the people of Iraq would be capable of stopping Saddam by themselves when every time they tried to rebel, they were massacred. Who is going to help them then?

As far as President Bush failing in not finding the WMDs, I really don't know and neither does anyone else. All anyone has to base their information is their own opinion and my opinion is as good as anyone else's.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 12:59 PM
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Well on the question of the solution: tolerance on both sides, yes. But how on earth is it going to work if the rich/grand west always looks down on everyone else? No wonder we are used as the Enemy by everyone who wants something... I mean we can't go on like that because in the end it's going to lead to the disaster.
Secondly, fight terrorism with counter-terrorism rather than a military, oppressive force.
Third: start helping other states to create equal opportunities and education. An educated mind is less easy to sway to favour terrorism than an uneducated mind.

And I think with a little bit of help the iraqi people would have been able to overthrow saddam. Look at what happened in Georgia just last year? If they have endured enough and if there is a figure to unite behind no army in the world can stop the people forever. Peaceful revolution? Look at the example DDR (German Democratic Republic). You might argue that the state was crumbling already but they still had an army at hand and Russia could have stopped the whole thing if they really would have set their mind to it. For an army it is hard to actually open fire on their own people. Even terror often can't change that.
In all other counts I have to say I favour the sniper solution. Nice, clean, less people endangered on both sides and the chance (particularly in iraq) was/is that the next person will not be able to hold the country/government together.


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RavenWing 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 03:10 PM
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QUOTE (maisky @ Feb 15 2004, 08:18 PM)
Besides, there is no evidence that war can create peace.

jester.gif

Have you forgotten about WWII? If it wasn't for that war, there wouldn't be peace in Europe.


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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 04:00 PM
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Well there's a difference though. germany started it and lost and were tried. Here the US started it and their case has not been proven yet they'll get away with it unlike Germany who used the same excuses Bush did.
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 05:04 PM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Feb 16 2004, 04:00 PM)
Well there's a difference though. germany started it and lost and were tried. Here the US started it and their case has not been proven yet they'll get away with it unlike Germany who used the same excuses Bush did.

So I am to assume the you are comparing President Bush to Adolf Hitler? unsure.gif
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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 05:07 PM
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Yeap. Hitler charged in claiming Premptive strikes to supposedly save germany and Bushler did it as well. Nuremberg Trials threw out this Nazi Doctrine and Bushlers same argument should also be thrown out and Bushler tried for war crimes.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 05:59 PM
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I don't know.. GWB doesn't seem to be intelligent enough to be actually be able to be compared with Hitler. Yes, Hitler wanted war, but for expansion, not some weird pretense to fight terrorism.
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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:02 PM
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Maybe not terrorism but there was a preemptive strike argument during teh Nuremberg trials cause I was reading a book on the trials not to long ago and they raise this issue that the Nazi's tried to use the argument of preemptive strikes as an excuse for some of their actions and the court rejected this philosopy.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:06 PM
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the pre-emptive strike issue probably comes from the attack on France. Yes, I guess that is definitly classified as a pre-emptive strike over here to keep others from Interfering.
Still, I don't want to compare the war on terror with a war done for expansion and enslaving the slavic people.
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maisky 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:25 PM
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The biggest difference that I see here is that Hitler was following his own ideas. Georgie does what the major energy companies tell him. The Iraq invasion is not about terrorism or about Sadam's excesses. It is about oil. Bush is scrambling like a cat trying to cover a turd on a linoleum floor. The only surprise is that ANYBODY still believes his lies. sad.gif


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maisky 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:26 PM
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The WORST that might happen in this forum is if GW were to join. Then I would have to be NICE to him. sad.gif
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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:30 PM
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Well lets see if Bushler frees the Iraqie people any time soon. So far he's not doing to much to get the troops out. Seems I remember him saying it would be weeks right after the war supposedly ended and what it's been like 7-8 months at least now.
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scottish2 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 06:33 PM
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If Bushler joins I say we take away his 1st amendment right just as he's doing to our rights give him a taste of his own medicine. tongue.gif
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