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> Why Do We Need Something To Believe In?
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 13-Feb-2004, 11:19 AM
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to the question of what we can be sure of... I keep it with socrates words as well.
I think we should never become too sure of anything because it will hit us so much harder if we build our whole world on a thesis and it's brought down with one lucky stone-throw...


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silverdragon 
Posted: 13-Feb-2004, 04:19 PM
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I've lurked a while on this, and have decided to jump in....

(deep breath..... brrrr.....) What follows is strictly an account of MY experience. A testimony, if you find that wording comfortable.

I NEED something to believe in. I was dying. A spiritual way of life has saved my sorry butt. Yes, my physical survival depends on maintenance of a fit spiritual condition. I have a simple (not easy) set of rules on how to do just that, that I follow on a daily basis.

I don't join the creationism v. evolution debate. I don't even join the Christian v. Pagan v. Buddist v. Whatever debate. I belong to a Christian church primarily because that is the prevailing mythos I grew up in, though in fact my private beliefs are closer to Whatever. Did Whatever create the Universe? Did the Universe create Whatever? Is the Bible literally true, metaphorically true, on the same level as other religious mythology systems, pure nonsense, what? To be frank, I don't know and don't really care.

When I behaved as if I believed in nothing, I was dying. Now when I behave as if I believe in Something, and the rules I referred to above are how that Something would have me behave, I not only survive, my life is filled with abundance. The Something I believe in may or may not be powerful enough to create the Universe, start volcanos, part the Red Sea, etc. So what?

It's powerful enough to save my life, and that's enough for me. It's more than I could do.

(For those who are impressed by scientific credentials, I hold degrees in aerospace engineering and in computer science, from prestigious universities. The fancy letters after my name could not save my butt. My Higher Power could, did, and does.)


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Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing?
Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
Where is the hand on the harpstring, and the red fire glowing?
Where is the spring and the harvest and the tall corn growing?
They have passed like rain on the mountain, like a wind in the meadow
The days have gone down in the West behind the hills into shadow
Who shall gather the smoke of the dead wood burning
Or behold the flowing years from the Sea returning?

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maisky 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 09:18 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Feb 6 2004, 01:45 PM)

What if we don't need to believe in something but do anyway?




After all, Raven believes that JaneyMae and Annabelle aren't out to pluck him.... laugh.gif

jester.gif


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peckery 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 09:28 AM
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Silver Dragon.....This how I feel. I'm not really sure I believe in any specific thing, but I do believe in something. Don't go for organized religion. They have bills to pay. Organized religions are corrupt, a power grab, like any corp. CEO of God Corp.
PS What is an aerospace engineer doing in HOLLYWEIRD??
PSS Disney stoc is going up again smile.gif smile.gif smile.gif
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maisky 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 09:28 AM
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QUOTE (peckery @ Feb 12 2004, 02:46 PM)
rolleyes.gif Peckerys are natural born trouble makers. king.gif

Hey!! You're stealing my SHTICK!! rolleyes.gif

jester.gif
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maisky 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 09:35 AM
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With all respect for my fellow members, the Creation vs. Evolution issue was settled in the scientific community (except among a small "fringe" element) long ago.

From MY perspective as both a scientist and a Buddhist, the Bible makes an interesting read as a mixture of historical and tribal myths. Certainly there was a lot of good advice to the wandering tribes where the stories originated.

That said, I deeply respect anybody who maintains faith in their belief system, even if it is a belief that there isn't a system. biggrin.gif Keep the faith!! Up the Revolution!! (oops, my 60's background is showing). rolleyes.gif

jester.gif
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tsargent62 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 10:30 AM
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QUOTE (peckery @ Feb 14 2004, 09:28 AM)
Silver Dragon.....This how I feel. I'm not really sure I believe in any specific thing, but I do believe in something. Don't go for organized religion. They have bills to pay. Organized religions are corrupt, a power grab, like any corp. CEO of God Corp.

Peckery, it sounds like you've had a bad experience with organized religeon. Did you go to a Catholic school and get rapped on the knuckles too many times by the nuns?


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peckery 
Posted: 14-Feb-2004, 12:19 PM
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QUOTE (tsargent62 @ Feb 14 2004, 10:30 AM)
QUOTE (peckery @ Feb 14 2004, 09:28 AM)
Silver Dragon.....This how  I feel.  I'm not really sure I believe in any specific thing, but I do believe in something.    Don't go for organized religion.  They have bills to pay.  Organized religions are corrupt, a power grab, like any corp.  CEO of God Corp.

Peckery, it sounds like you've had a bad experience with organized religeon. Did you go to a Catholic school and get rapped on the knuckles too many times by the nuns?

Nothing like that. I am a Sock Monkey of science, though. People can believe in whatever they want, just don't expect me to buy in. I find people who know more Bible than science make me tired. I for one am happy with the " we are just here because we are" way of looking at things. Why it has to be more than that to so many people I don't get, but I respect their need. And if I am wrong, God is supposed to be a great guy, so I'll be OK anyway. king.gif
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silverdragon 
Posted: 15-Feb-2004, 01:59 AM
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QUOTE (peckery @ Feb 14 2004, 06:28 AM)
Silver Dragon.....This how  I feel.  I'm not really sure I believe in any specific thing, but I do believe in something.    Don't go for organized religion.  They have bills to pay.  Organized religions are corrupt, a power grab, like any corp.  CEO of God Corp.
PS  What is an aerospace engineer doing in HOLLYWEIRD??
PSS Disney stoc is going up again smile.gif  smile.gif  smile.gif

Ah, if you can't believe in Disney, what CAN you believe in? smile.gif

As for aerospace, it was the second largest industry here in La-La Land for many decades. Rockwell, Hughes, Lockheed, and many smaller firms that fed the others designs and parts. Alas, those days are gone...
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Raven 
Posted: 16-Feb-2004, 12:52 PM
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QUOTE (maisky @ Feb 14 2004, 09:35 AM)
With all respect for my fellow members, the Creation vs. Evolution issue was settled in the scientific community (except among a small "fringe" element) long ago.

From MY perspective as both a scientist and a Buddhist, the Bible makes an interesting read as a mixture of historical and tribal myths. Certainly there was a lot of good advice to the wandering tribes where the stories originated.

That said, I deeply respect anybody who maintains faith in their belief system, even if it is a belief that there isn't a system. biggrin.gif Keep the faith!! Up the Revolution!! (oops, my 60's background is showing). rolleyes.gif

jester.gif

What was the outcome Maisky. (waitint anxiously to find out which fringe I am on biggrin.gif )

BTW what do you mean that I don't believe those wiley females are out to pluck me??????????


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maisky 
Posted: 19-Feb-2004, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Feb 16 2004, 12:52 PM)
QUOTE (maisky @ Feb 14 2004, 09:35 AM)
With all respect for my fellow members, the Creation vs. Evolution issue was settled in the scientific community (except among a small "fringe" element) long ago.

From MY perspective as both a scientist and a Buddhist, the Bible makes an interesting read as a mixture of historical and tribal myths.  Certainly there was a lot of good advice to the wandering tribes where the stories originated. 

That said, I deeply respect anybody who maintains faith in their belief system, even if it is a belief that there isn't a system.  biggrin.gif Keep the faith!!  Up the Revolution!! (oops, my 60's background is showing).  rolleyes.gif

jester.gif

What was the outcome Maisky. (waitint anxiously to find out which fringe I am on biggrin.gif )

BTW what do you mean that I don't believe those wiley females are out to pluck me??????????

Evolution, of course. biggrin.gif

As far as plucking, it has been almost 18 hours since I saw a post in which Annabelle or Elspeth offered to pluck you...... unsure.gif
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Raven 
Posted: 19-Feb-2004, 02:37 PM
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I guess I am on the scientific fringe that does not except "theories" as fact or law. I admire your faith wink.gif

Of course I am talking about macro evolution I.E. molecules to life, monkeys to man etc...

Since people are still putting faith in evolution and evolution is still regarded and taught as a theory I would say the argument must not really be settled except for a fringe element. It seems that all of the great thinkers of today are still pondering the idea of a moment of creation (regarding life Itself and inter species evolution) because of that whole 2nd law of thermo dynamics thing.

I do remember your post about "Postulating a universe that that is born, grows old, dies, and is reborn in an eternal cycle satisfying conservation of energy and matter issues" unfortunately there is no evidence to suggest that this is true. It is only another theory that suggests the visible evidence and begs the question of creation or beginning. I can understand that as a Buddist why this would work for you. However when I was in college (admittedly a few years ago - 20 to be exact smile.gif ) this particular idea was on the fringe and from what I have read and seen on the Tele lately it looks as if it maintains this same status with the mainstream.

By way of not digressing into a micro evolution argument I think it is pretty well settled that evolution on this scale is a fact as the evidence does suggest that certain characteristic traits would tend to make one species or variation there of survive while another dies out. I.E. survival of the fittest, extinction, etc...

I guess on this one we will have to agree to disagree ole buddist buddy tongue.gif

and that's okay. Some of the greatest minds of our time have done and are doing the same unsure.gif

Peace

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maisky 
Posted: 21-Feb-2004, 07:19 PM
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Agreeing to disagree works for me, my friend. biggrin.gif (If you won't be nice enough to let me fight with you). laugh.gif

I read a good sign today: When Irish eyes are smiling....They are up to something!
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JaneyMae 
Posted: 22-Feb-2004, 01:02 PM
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I believe in Coffee in the morning, a whiskey in the evening, and food & laughter in between.

Oh, I also believe in the almighty creator who, without him, I can do nothing biggrin.gif


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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 22-Feb-2004, 01:58 PM
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QUOTE (maisky @ Feb 21 2004, 07:19 PM)
I read a good sign today:  When Irish eyes are shining....They are up to something!

Hear! Hear! This is TRUE!!!! Hihi! biggrin.gif
I know that...really...we have an Irish pub around the corner which is - what a coincidence wink.gif - my local, too.
The owner and his brother are Irish to the bones and I know them for quite a while now... so I know... rolleyes.gif


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"Now here's my secret", said the fox, "it is very simple. It is only with ones heart that one can see clearly. What is essential is invisible to the eye."

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