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> Surnames, Does it really reveal your heritage?
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 30-Jan-2004, 03:09 PM
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my problem with the whole clan idea ppl seem to have is basically that they claim the history of their clan and all that comes with it but their ancestors may have had absolutely nothing to do with it and for example joined later, nor would they probably have been actually a part of the certain family that made the clan history...
That's why I said earlier on, surnames don't actually say too much. My own surname doesn't say anything about my family's history - my childs surname will have even less to do with it.


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Elspeth 
Posted: 31-Jan-2004, 06:31 AM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Jan 30 2004, 02:54 PM)
Speicher does (a speicher means either the attic of a house, or a storagespace). the first sounds rather irish to me... =/ I'll ask my grandma to have a look into her surnames book (it's translating the meaning of surnames or their actual origin). Brillhart could be German but it doesn't sound like a name I have ever heard.

(btw, if you think european history is united you're wrong... germany as an example was only little states and duchies until the preussians actually started to unite everything)

We know the Raieghs came from Germany/Holland. But many wierd and wonderful spelling changes often ensued in the process, so who knows how it was spelled long, long ago. I can be pretty sure they were of the German area because of their religion. The Anabaptists started in such a small area and stayed there, so it would be doubtful to have other ancestries intermingled. And in the late 1600's if a Catholic had married a Protestant. Yikes! Romeo and Juliet stuff. Actually within the Anabaptist group it was a huge scandal when a member of The Church of the Brethren married a Mennonite. Two sects that evolved from the same root were not allowed to intermingle.

It is cool to know that Speicher means. Attic. Interesting.

I know what you mean about the dutchies. And, since the Anabaptist movement started in the Western area of what is now Germany, very close to what is now The Netherlands, who knows under whose protection these people actually lived. And I doubt it mattered much to them to have a nationality. As long as bread could be put on the table and they were protected from war or persecution. They were a pasifist people so they wouldn't have been off fighting for King and country anyway.

Maybe I should call them Rheinlanders instead of German or Dutch. rolleyes.gif

And as to surnames. My maiden name reflected my English heritage, which is only a small piece of the mix. But my dad referred to himself as English because of it, when in actuallity he was more German than English. And when a woman gets married! People keep assuming I'm Polish when I don't have a single ancestor from that country, religion or philosophy.


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Elspeth 
Posted: 31-Jan-2004, 09:32 AM
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It might be interesting to share why were are interested in genealogy.

For me, I want to trace each branch of the family to its country of origin, preferably its place of origin. I want to know where I came from, literally. I want to know what the land looked like, how the people made their livings, what was their religion, did they live in farms or in a village or by the sea. I would like to be able to go to a place and say, my ancestor lived here, and in doing so feel a connection, at least to a place.

I also want to understand better the people who molded the people who molded me. For if you grow up in any family or community structure, you are influenced by it. And many of the norms of a family, or even a community go back many, many generations. Rules are followed or ideas held dear and people have no idea from which they came.

For example, even in the mid-seventies, my sister dating a Catholic was cause to raise eyebrows, something that didn't make sense to me. But when I researched the Brethren church, I discovered in the 1600's, the early Brethrens not only broke away from The Roman Catholic Church because of dissenting views, they were subsequently persecuted, some to the point of being burnt at the stake. This made me better understood the prejudice that had been held onto all these years, even though those who held those views may have had no idea what had happened to their ancestral community. Or if they did know of the history, they consciously decided to hold onto the belief system of their ancestors.

And the belief systems of those who raised me, are part of my make-up. So, in genealogy, I can better understand were I came from - the people, the geography, the religion and political climate - and that helps me to better understand the belief systems I was raised with. When that is understood, I am then able to create my own belief system based upon factual information, not the ?we?ve always been this way? philosophy. Though, there is some confort in this line of thought as well. I have a friend who conscioulsy holds onto a bad relational interaction trait because it is the way his family is. He says, in a twisted way, it keeps connected to his family who lives far away.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 31-Jan-2004, 09:53 AM
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well the actual Rhineland had quite a speckled history (I grew up in the region Rheinland/Bergisches Land). It actually belonged to the "independent" kingdom of Bavaria in the 19th century and before that the ruling family had land all over germany. the region I grew up in was the region in which the "Grafen von Spee" ruled (Counts) and one of their ancestors wrote a controversial book against the witch hunts and the "maleus maleficorum" (Hexenhammer, witchhammer).
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Keltic 
Posted: 31-Jan-2004, 10:34 AM
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QUOTE
my problem with the whole clan idea ppl seem to have is basically that they claim the history of their clan and all that comes with it but their ancestors may have had absolutely nothing to do with it and for example joined later, nor would they probably have been actually a part of the certain family that made the clan history...
That's why I said earlier on, surnames don't actually say too much. My own surname doesn't say anything about my family's history - my childs surname will have even less to do with it. AD,

Surnames are only one piece of the puzzle but are no less important than birthdates. No you can't say that since my last name is X, therefore, my family took part in a certain event. This is brought on largely by the generic family history scrolls that you can purchase on-line or at many events. I think that you should give the benefit of the doubt to the people in here. They are obviously interested in their genealogy and therefore more than likely know that there is a bit more than just claiming lineage due to their last name.

QUOTE
I'm not trying to keep people from finding their roots since it is very interesting work but I have problems understanding the kind of fascination that comes over from America (especially!) to here...

Since North America is so young for a large part of the population here, retracing your roots means that you are going to be brought back to Scotland, Ireland, Germany, France or wherever. I don't think that immigrants to Scotland who are interested in genealogy are going to stop their research once it reaches beyond the Scottish borders. It's not about ignoring American culture but rather pulling in the full picture. Remember, you are on a Celtic forum and therefore the posts quite often are geared to the forum. It doesn't mean that these people haven't researched their American history. Perhaps if you went on to an "American History" forum, you would see the other side of the coin.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 31-Jan-2004, 12:50 PM
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hey: as I said, I don't want to keep people from it, but I have problems understanding the extend of it. Full picture or no, there's alot missing in my family history as well, especially from my grandfathers side because as far as we know his father was fathered by someone we don't know and his mother gave him away after the birth. We have no names from that line and not much hope to find anything because the birth registers were destroyed in WW2...

I wasn't talking about anybody in here, but I know enough of the sort that thinks "oh I'm clan something" and starts claiming the whole history of the clan not caring how the family got to that name. I maybe didn't express myself right... =/

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Elspeth 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 10:02 AM
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AD
I'll have to ask you more about the Rheinland later. I'm not sure where that branch came from, just making some educated guesses based upon where the religious sect we are from origionated. And as it didn't spread much, I think it is a good guess, but it is a guess, nonetheless. Do you know Schwarzenau on the Elder River? You can answer me in a PM, I know I'm sliding off the topic of this thread. rolleyes.gif
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 05:48 PM
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Elder? don't think so. It might be something very small, all I know with EL E in it is the Elbe which runs from the czech republic through Germany to Hamburg where it enters the North Sea...

Alot of the stricter Christian Sects originated in the South (Calvinism for example which then moved upwards and had a huge following in what is now the Netherlands)...

But sure, PM me and I'll tell you what I know. (I don't mind veering off topic wink.gif ) Or start another topic for German Roots and I'm sure the Germans active on this board and I can try being some help.
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DesertRose 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 06:05 PM
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Hey! I am enjoying what you all are saying. You're not veerying off topic to me! go for it! But that would be great to see a German roots in the forum too! I don't know that much about Germany and would love to learn. thumbs_up.gif


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 04-Feb-2004, 06:17 PM
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I'm eager to share what I know. I take pride in the fact that my country isn't only bavaria & ludwig II castles wink.gif

Just yesterday my tutor was ill so one of the technicians took over and since I had another scan I was late and he had to show me what they were doing in person. He said something I didn't understand and he was very suprised to learn that I'm German and started talking to me about Germany and that he's been there on holidays many times, and in a lot of places I have been on holidays and such.
He says it's a crying shame that many ppl don't see Germany as the nice country it is and associate it with Bavaria...
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MacEoghainn 
  Posted: 17-Feb-2004, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (MDF3530 @ Jan 30 2004, 02:59 PM)
The Irish McLoughlins were royalty at one time.

Based on the following it would appear claiming either spelling qualifies you for a Royal Irish linage. king.gif

From the Clan MacLachlan (North American) Web page http://www.maclachlans.org/

Who is Clan MacLachlan?

Clan MacLachlan is one of the oldest of all Scottish Clans. According to Irish manuscripts, the Clan is descended from the same line as the O'Neills, High Kings of Ireland.

Irish And Scottish - We Are One Family

Irish or Scottish - A Misconception

Since Clan MacLachlan descends from the Kings of ancient Dalridia, much confusion has arisen over whether the MacLachlans are Irish or Scottish. In reality, we are both. Our roots come from an age before Ireland and Scotland existed. Thus, any nationalistic feelings of being one or the other are of modern origin.

Since Clan MacLachlan has close ties to both Scotland and Ireland (for example, MacLachlan castles existed both in Scotland on Loch Fyne and in Northern Ireland at Aileach), we prefer to refer to ourselves as simply Celtic MacLachlans.

MacEoghainn (a member of Clan MacLachlan only because of those @#%$ Campbells)


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Elspeth 
Posted: 18-Feb-2004, 08:17 AM
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Thanks for that info! We have a McGlaughlin in our family tree and there has been debate if she was Irish or Scottish. As this was a Presbyterian line, I was inclined to assume she was a Scot. So, if I am understanding you, the family began in Ireland and then went to Scotland. The funny part is this ancestor's famliy must have gone back centuries later as part of the plantation of Ireland, as they were Ulster Scots. Makes the American term Scots-Irish make more sense in this case. biggrin.gif
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Elspeth 
Posted: 18-Feb-2004, 08:22 AM
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Ooppss... just checked and I was wrong. Had her in the wrong branch. She married my Welsh great-great grandfather. It was her son who married the Presbyterian. I don't know where that family came from, Scotland, Ireland proper or Ulster Ireland. She's a dead end branch. sad.gif I hate those. Wish I could discover more about her. I always loved her name. Amanda McGlaughlin
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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 18-Feb-2004, 09:00 AM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Feb 4 2004, 06:17 PM)
I'm eager to share what I know. I take pride in the fact that my country isn't only bavaria & ludwig II castles wink.gif

Just yesterday my tutor was ill so one of the technicians took over and since I had another scan I was late and he had to show me what they were doing in person. He said something I didn't understand and he was very suprised to learn that I'm German and started talking to me about Germany and that he's been there on holidays many times, and in a lot of places I have been on holidays and such.
He says it's a crying shame that many ppl don't see Germany as the nice country it is and associate it with Bavaria...

Oooops...I have a lot of kin in Bavaria wink.gif but I know what you mean, Aon. You're not so wrong with your opinion.
Germany is much more than Bavaria, the castles of Ludwig II or some cities along the River Rhine!
I've lived in different parts of Germany and if I could be of any help with any information I would gladly do it!

Elspeth, I don't know if it is still of interest for you or if your question concerning "Schwarzenau" is already answered.
There is a "Schwarzenau" which is part of the city "Bad Berleburg" today and which is situated at the river "Eder". Bad Berleburg is situated in the "Sauerland" and the Sauerland is rather near to the "Rheinland". Maybe it is the "Schwarzenau" you are looking for...


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Elspeth 
Posted: 18-Feb-2004, 09:56 AM
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Yes! that is the area. I took the information from a Church of the Brethren website so this is all I know of it. Others settled in Krefeld too I think. (excuse any misspellings, I am not near my research)
What is that area like? I would love to hear anything you'd like to share.
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