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> Surnames, Does it really reveal your heritage?
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WizardofOwls 
Posted: 16-May-2004, 04:46 PM
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Hallo a Chatržona!

When greeting someone in Scottish Gaelic, in most cases (but not all), an h is inserted after the initial consonant. Hence from Catržona to Chatržona. (This changes the hard C sound to the softer Ch found at the end of loch.)

In a man's name, an additional i is inserted before the final consonant in the name. For instance, if someone's name was Seumas (that's the Gaelic for James, pronounced SHAY-mus), you would greet him as Hallo a Sheumais! Seumas, when spelt this way, is pronounced HAY-mish which is where the name Hamish comes from!


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Catriona 
Posted: 17-May-2004, 02:42 AM
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Yes, I understand the origins of Scots Gaelic names - after all, I bear one! My granny and grand-dad had the Gaelic as their first language, and my father and his siblings grew up in a Gaelic speaking household.

So, I know the usual things, greetings, farewells, names... But I have truly never seen my Gaelic name written with an 'h'... and I am named for my Granny! The correct pronounciation of my name is Kuh tree oh na (with the emphasis on the second syllable).

Personally, I have no real interest in the Gaelic... My interests tend more towards the everyday languages of Scotland, ie Lallans/Auld Scots/the Doric. I am passionate about ensuring that they do not die out in Scotland cool.gif As the Gaelic is only spoken by 60,000 native Scots, I also believe that more attention should be given to Lallans etc... after all, there are many more of us speaking with those languages (And I do know that there are those that dispute whether or not Scots/Lallans/Doric can be called languages rather than dialects, but I obviously believe the former is the case!)
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Elspeth 
Posted: 17-May-2004, 08:44 AM
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How prevelent is Lallans? Are signs written in both English and Lallans, etc? Is it used in the schools? And is it spoken all over Scotland, or only in the lowlands? I know I read a little about it, but that was a while ago. I have a Scots/English dictionary which states the Scots language shares its beginnings with Northumbrian English. This is where my English ancestors are from. Was their speech similiar to Lallans?

I am curious about Lallans. Maybe because I have some hope of understanding it. biggrin.gif Gaelic will forever be beyond me. rolleyes.gif


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Catriona 
Posted: 17-May-2004, 09:05 AM
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Elspeth:
No, I'm afraid that road signs etc do not have dual language - for in many cases, the names are the same, just the pronounciation that is different.

There aren't even dual language English/Gaelic signs throughout Scotland - although there are plenty in the Highlands and beyond. cool.gif

Lallans is really the vernacular language of the lowlands (and in the case of Doric, the areas around Aberdeenshire). It is the language that most people spoke, but were forced to leave at home when they got into school. No Lallans pronounciation or spelling of words.

I speak English (of course): but with friends a lot of Lallans words and expressions creep into our speech patterns. I prefer to think that Scots will be able to talk and write in 'wur ain leid' (our own language) in the future!

The resurgence of Lallans as a 'real' language has been happening steadily over the past 30 or so years. One of the first and most eloquent proponents of Lallans was Hugh MacDairmid, the famous Scottish poet and writer. Here's a little background on MacDairmid http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~crumey/h...macdiarmid.html

The accents in Northumbria and Newcastle is very similar to lowland Scots - by that, I mean certain intonations.... Did you ever hear the following explanation of the Geordie (native of Newcastle) 'Geordies are Scots with no brains'... cool.gif (although it's not usually written as politely as I've just done!)

This topic has been taken totally off-topic now, and I apologise for that!

If anyone has any questions re 'Wur ain Leid', I'd be happy to answer over in the Scotland forum.



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Lyra Luminara 
Posted: 30-May-2004, 02:30 PM
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I think I need some extreme help. I've spoken to grandparents and even have an account on ancestry.com but I've found very little. My grandmother doesn't even know/ or ever knew who her great-grandparents were, and very little about her grandparents for that matter. Simply no family record was ever kept in bibles or whatever it may be. I do know that the area my family is from in England (Ely, Cambridge) is a big Anglo-Saxon area...in which the saxons invaded years ago. I'm really curious to find out if pieces of my family were from celtic tribes, or from the invading saxons, or maybe both.


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Catriona 
Posted: 30-May-2004, 05:14 PM
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Hello there!

I'm afraid there is no quick fix in genealogy. You have to start with your generation, your parents and their parents and so on.... back to the first immigrant of your present country (sorry, I'm not sure where that is!). Only then, via perhaps passenger lists and immigration records will you be able to ascertain exactly where your family comes from. With that information, you may be able to access parish records this side of the pond.

Ely is a very old town. Christianity has had deep roots there since very early times in the UK. Being in the South East of England, it was an area that was invaded/raided by many, the Norsemen, the Angles, the Jutes, the Saxons (to name a few).

Records of common men (ie not nobility or big landowners) is a fairly recent thing - from about 1500+. sooooo, finding out exactly what makes up your heritage may be beyond any records so far found.

I lived near Ely for a couple of years - although I don't know the town all that well, I do know it!

English records are better than Scots (my nationality), simply because many of our records were destroyed by various forays north by the English!
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Lyra Luminara 
Posted: 30-May-2004, 10:15 PM
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forgive my english blood. haha. I was actually researching some surnames in my family today and discovered that my own last name is Scottish, and down the maternal line of surnames, all are Irish or English, and the English names claim that those families were there before the Norman invasions in 1066...hmmm.

See, I'm *trying* to trace my maternal line, but it's ccrazy hard because it's hard to find out maiden names with women and marriage records and what not. bahh.
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Catriona 
Posted: 31-May-2004, 03:19 AM
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'forgive my English blood'??????? unsure.gif

Why on earth apologise for something that is part of you. cool.gif Be proud to have English ancestry, remember - without the English, you'd probably be speaking French or Dutch in the USA! The British Empire may have a lot to answer for... but without those ancestors: Scots, English, Irish and Welsh.... most of the great discoveries of the past would not have been made; places like Canada, Australia and the USA would not have been the great countries they have become.

One thing to remember: whenever you see genealogies that purport to be able to trace family history back pre 1600 or 1500s.... be VERY wary... I wish I had a pound for every post I've seen on the net saying 'I am able to trace my ancestry back to William the Conqueror or William Wallace etc....
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Lyra Luminara 
Posted: 01-Jun-2004, 03:10 PM
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hah yea, it's crazy.

Yea, the english so have a lot to answer for, but I still am proud.
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DesertRose 
Posted: 01-Jun-2004, 04:32 PM
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Lyra! I have mostly English ancestry in me too. I don't feel the need to apologize. I am proud of it. I also have Italian ancestry. There have been and still are not so good of folks there either. Look at Mussellini and all the mafia movies made about Italians! But I don't feel the need to apologize. I didn't personally participate in their deeds. All races and nationalties have good and not so good people! That is just the way of the world! Be proud of who you are and do not apologize for the deeds of your ancestors! We just be the good persons we can be.

have fun with your genealogy search! I have with mine, but keep hitting roadblocks.....still. The women in this country in 19th century were considered unimportant and a lot of them not even recorded, let alone their ancestors........so sad! It makes it very frustrating to research.


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ladymagikwolf 
Posted: 01-Jul-2004, 02:00 PM
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Im new to this site and was just wondering if any of you had heard of the surname of Cochrain in all your studys...I have been researching my family history because i know my grand father 6 gens back came from ireland and in my studies i have also found that Gen. Sam Houstons fathers family was also from ireland and scotland.I am related to G Sam Houston also.If any one can help me research more please let me know thank you.
Dottie


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Catriona 
Posted: 02-Jul-2004, 07:28 AM
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That sounds like a variation of the name Cochrane, which is a name claimed by both Scotland and Ireland.

The Irish Cochranes appear to have been most numerous in Antrim/Armargh/Cavan/Donegal and County Down.

The Scots Cochranes appeared to be concentrated in Renfrew.

I'm afraid there is no short cut to know which branch you made be descended from, but you appear to have done half the job already, so it shouldn't be too difficult for you.

Good luck with your research!

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ladymagikwolf 
Posted: 02-Jul-2004, 08:41 PM
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Thank you so much you gave me more info than you know because the cochrane's are from both ireland and scotland...so im a product of both places..lol but that really gives me lots to go on..again thank you...

Blessed Be
Dottie
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Catriona 
Posted: 03-Jul-2004, 07:49 AM
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Two good Scots sites that you might find interesting are
www.electricscotland.com and
www.rampantscotland.com

Both of them have a lot of information on Scottish clans - and both (I think, but haven't checked) also have info on Irish family names, too.

A word of caution: the owner of Electric Scotland freely admits that he doesn't verify information posted by others - so make sure you check anything you find on there against at least 2 other sources!
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ladymagikwolf 
Posted: 03-Jul-2004, 10:23 AM
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again thank you very much i will be sure to check out anything i find on the one...i am really glad my husband found this site you guys seem really nice and actually do discuss stuff.....plus theres many interesting things here..

Blessed Be Dottie
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