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> Do You Support Gay Marriage?
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Do you support Gay marriage?
Yes [ 13 ]  [41.94%]
No [ 17 ]  [54.84%]
Unsure [ 1 ]  [3.23%]
Total Votes: 31
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DesertRose 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 12:38 AM
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Um.......... well I hesitated coming into this forum as I do not like to debate and not as inteligent as you all are. But I must say that I am a Christian and I will admit that because of my beliefs in the Bible I do not believe in gay marriages. If they want to live as partners and raise children then that is their business, but marriage was instituted by God and I just don't agree with the "marriage" thing at all with gays. And yeah! A lot of wars have been started in the name of Christ, but
like oldraven said. Those are the fanatics!

BTW, even though I am a Christian, I am not a Bible thumper! Those are my beliefs and I choose not to push myself on anyone. But you asked the question, Scottish 2 and I answered my opinion and participated in the poll wink.gif biggrin.gif

Oh my! This is my first post in the politics forum! Very scarey for me! unsure.gif


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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 01:21 AM
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QUOTE (CelticRose @ Jan 23 2004, 12:38 AM)
Oh my! This is my first post in the politics forum! Very scarey for me! unsure.gif

Celtic Rose,

I think you survived it just fine. wink.gif


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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 08:36 AM
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QUOTE (peckery @ Jan 22 2004, 11:19 PM)
It is fine by me, but don't call it marriage. Marriage is between man anda woman. Call it a partnership, give them all the benefits of marriage (Ins., taxes etc) but sweet tap dancing Jesus, don't call it marriage. cool.gif

I don't think many gays would argue with that. I don't think it's the name but the benifits that go along with being together.
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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 08:38 AM
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QUOTE (Keltic @ Jan 22 2004, 11:47 PM)
Atheists don't usually have an organized "Atheist" group and therefore, they wouldn't have a large collective voice.

You still don't hear even individual aethists running around yelling ban gay marriages. At least I have never met one to date. It always seems to be religious groups at the forefront of this debate on the opposing side that is.
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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 08:57 AM
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QUOTE (CelticRose @ Jan 23 2004, 12:38 AM)
Um.......... well I hesitated coming into this forum as I do not like to debate and not as inteligent as you all are.  But I must say that  I am a Christian and I will admit that because of my beliefs in the Bible I do not believe in gay marriages.  If they want to live as partners and raise children then that is their business, but marriage was instituted by God and I just don't agree with the "marriage" thing at all with gays. And yeah! A lot of wars have been started in the name of Christ, but
like oldraven said. Those are the fanatics!

BTW, even though I am a Christian, I am not a Bible thumper!  Those are my beliefs and I choose not to push myself on anyone.  But you asked the question, Scottish 2 and I answered my opinion and participated in the poll  wink.gif  biggrin.gif

Oh my! This is my first post in the politics forum! Very scarey for me!  unsure.gif

Well you survived it. smile.gif

Was going to respond with the question of you have the right to believe as you do but what right gives you the right to push your views onto others but you answered it right in saying you don't push your views onto others. Which is the right answer by the way. smile.gif

And even religion doesn't have a right to force their views onto others it isn't a right for anyone religious or non religious to push their views onto others and that's why I get upset at lobbist groups who try and have a law made the effects other groups of people like the religious groups pushing for a ban on gay marriages or for this matter abortion. Where do they get this right? Answer is it's not a right at all for them to have something banned that they don't approve of cause the law won't effect the ones pushing it. It effects another group of individuals whom the group pushing it on doesn't agree with. That is effective trying to force their views on the opposite party by effectively banning the way their chose to live or act. As I have stated if the (well for the sake of argument) gay party wants to live together and get partnered wink.gif then that is their choice and what right does religion or any other person have to get involved in their personal lives and say they can't get partnered wink.gif . None cause people don't have a right to try and conform society to their views. Everyone is different and has a right yes a right to seak happiness in their own way and so long as them seaking happiness doesn't infringe on anothers rights then no one has a right to try and prevent them from seaking happiness in the way they chose.

An example of a person seaking the wrong type and illegal type of happiness would be the murderer. He takes anothers life depriving that person of the right to life and hence gives up his right to happiness because he deprive another person of their right to life.

But two consenting adults be they Man~Man or Woman~Woman have a right to seak happiness together if they wish and government doesn't have a right to say they can't get partnered or joined or for this matter even married. Government does not have this power in the Constitution and I feels is illegally ussurping a power they don't have.

If anyone knows of the section where congress can legislativly control marriage I am all eyes and ears.

Here I will even help you out

For the U.S. Constitution click here.

The U.S. Bill of Rights

See Cletic I think you survived I'm not a harsh leader. It's all about getting people to think. wink.gif
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:05 AM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Jan 23 2004, 08:57 AM)
[See Cletic I think you survived I'm not a harsh leader. It's all about getting people to think. wink.gif

Celtic Rose,

That is what he tells all First Timers. wink.gif

He gets you all drawn in and then POW, just like Batman. batman.gif

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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:14 AM
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Now now you know I am a nice leader. I haven't censored anyones views and let you all share your views on things. I just post the opposing (sometimes) view that's all.
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Elspeth 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:31 AM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Jan 23 2004, 08:57 AM)

Was going to respond with the question of you have the right to believe as you do but what right gives you the right to push your views onto others but you answered it right in saying you don't push your views onto others. Which is the right answer by the way. smile.gif


Since when are there 'right' answers? Isn't that what you keep accusing conseratives and Christians as being guilty of? Sounds to me like the 'right' answer is whatever answer agrees with your perspective.


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maisky 
  Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:33 AM
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Scottish is indeed a good leader, leading people to think. Many people find this to be painful, like using muscles that they don't use very often. To make the pain go away, try using it more..... biggrin.gif


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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:49 AM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Jan 23 2004, 09:31 AM)
QUOTE (scottish2 @ Jan 23 2004, 08:57 AM)

Was going to respond with the question of you have the right to believe as you do but what right gives you the right to push your views onto others but you answered it right in saying you don't push your views onto others. Which is the right answer by the way. smile.gif


Since when are there 'right' answers? Isn't that what you keep accusing conseratives and Christians as being guilty of? Sounds to me like the 'right' answer is whatever answer agrees with your perspective.

My view has always been regarding rights that no one has a right to infringe or try to deprive any other person of their rights. Religious people don't have a right to force their views and morals onto others just as gays don't have a right to force their views and morals onto religious folk. So religious folk can feel that being gay is wrong but they don't have a right to push their views onto gays and ban their life style (unsure how to really consider this as some say it's a choice and others say their born that way so unsure as it may and maynot be a chosen lifestyle unsure.gif ) All I am say is yes you have a right to believe as you do but you don't have a right to force others to believe as you do. If people come to you and want to believe as you do that's their choice but no one has the right to force another to their views.
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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 09:51 AM
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QUOTE (maisky @ Jan 23 2004, 09:33 AM)
Scottish is indeed a good leader, leading people to think. Many people find this to be painful, like using muscles that they don't use very often. To make the pain go away, try using it more..... biggrin.gif

It's like the old phrase it takes less muscles to smile but how many people smile regularly? biggrin.gif

And thanks maisky I try. wink.gif
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 03:56 PM
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mmh.. onto Richards exclamation on it being Unnatural.. why does it exist then???

Anyway.. I do not care what Religion says about Marriage, because I do not think Marriage was instituted by God. It was instituted by those who carried his "word" about.
Anyway, the concept of marriage is far older than Christianity, people have been forming life-long bonds for a while now.
I'm not overly fond of the concept that people HAVE to marry to be eligible to certain rights. Example: I want my boyfriend to have the same rights on our child (in case we ever break up) as I have, but after the legislation at the moment this is not possible without marrying. In my eyes he should have the very same rights, if not more than me because he will be the one that looks after it while I am in college.

Anyway, what I criticise is that people (not all but alot) call themselves Christians and with that see it as if they can impress their views onto everyone/thing and if it's the other way round they feel attacked and insulted.

Marriage is only a word, but an important one because it's meaning states that 2 partners enter a life-long bond (well, in the ideal case). Why that should there be a difference when it is 2 males/females that enter this bond or a mixed-sex couple. If the church does not accept this, the only thing that can be forbidden to them is enter that bond in the sense as the church see's it.

Marriage per sť is not the thing people do in the church but the overall meaning for it.

Anyway: I think this discussion should not involve and church-views simply because it is about legalising it. In Germany it is possible by now and there are many happy gay couples that could legalise their relationship and enter that symbolic bond. And I think that is what this should be about, making people happy that want to take this step and making them equal to the status mixed sex couples have in the legal system.


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oldraven 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 04:37 PM
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Aon, you can't cut religion out of the equation, because it's at the heart of the whole issue. It shouldn't be, but it is. The issue is the definition of marriage, which was made by the church and is now carried over as part of the law. It's just that the laws haven't changed to reflect a separate Church and State.







As a side note, the religion is older than Christianity. Much older. That's just the most recent chapter.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 04:44 PM
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well, the reason I took religion out of that is because "marriage" is a lifelong bond. Birds to it as well *shrugs*

Anyway, tell me another word for that and I'm fine with that. But a life long bond can't be sanctioned by anyone, it is a choice. If you do it yourself or others do it for you is another question.
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scottish2 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 04:52 PM
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I agree with Aon on this (go figure laugh.gif ) As i pointed out in another thread I can just as easily get married in from of a judge or a ships captain and neither of these is a religious ceramony preforded by a pastor/reverend of what have you. And these while they maybe civil services are still considered being married. People don't say they got joined by the ships captain they say they were married by the ships captain. Marriage is just a word and I don't feel religion has any legal claim to a word. rolleyes.gif
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