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> Do You Support Gay Marriage?
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Do you support Gay marriage?
Yes [ 13 ]  [41.94%]
No [ 17 ]  [54.84%]
Unsure [ 1 ]  [3.23%]
Total Votes: 31
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scottish2 
Posted on 17-Feb-2004, 04:31 PM
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As I pointed out earlier in this thread though is religion does not have ownership of the word marriage so they can't control who uses this word. I mean maybe they can in their own churches but if say 2 gay Atheists want to get marriaged the church has no right to push their views onto the 2 gay atheists.
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oldraven 
Posted on 17-Feb-2004, 04:43 PM
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QUOTE (Celticpride @ Feb 17 2004, 02:26 PM)
Legal unions between individuals should have the same binding effect as Marriage and if someone wants to engage in a Union then they should be allowed to do so.

Marriage is looked upon as a sacramental joining in a religious union and most religious denominations except for a few who have completely spun off into space define marriage as the union between male and female.

The gay community would be better off putting their efforts into making civil unions on the same level as a religious Marriage in the eyes of the legal community instead of trying to force the acceptance of gay marriage.

This is not a gay or stright issue it is a legal issue.

All of this looks reeeealy familiar. tongue.gif


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 17-Feb-2004, 05:48 PM
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hehehe...

I think we should all be afraid of HIV and let it be the reason to use proper protection... it has nothing to do with being gay or not.

celticpride: read the conversation in it's full.. "the word marriage" issue was up before wink.gif


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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 17-Feb-2004, 06:39 PM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Feb 17 2004, 05:48 PM)
hehehe...

I think we should all be afraid of HIV and let it be the reason to use proper protection... it has nothing to do with being gay or not.

celticpride: read the conversation in it's full.. "the word marriage" issue was up before wink.gif

I can vouch for that because I posted a Webster's Dictionary Definition of it. wink.gif


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 17-Feb-2004, 07:45 PM
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hehehe
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Highlander 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 11:07 AM
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Well whether or not the Gays have "rights" is irrelevant. If you are christian and follow christian teachings and principals there is only on answer to the marriage question for gays and that is NO. The bible says in no uncertain terms what a marriage union is and between whom. CelticPride says that it is not a marriage rights issue but one of civil law, even with that I cannot agree because under Gods laws gays are an abomination to his creation.

Aon this is where the Founding Father based their christian principles from, the Bible, not a single church organization.


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maisky 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 11:29 AM
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QUOTE (Highlander @ Feb 18 2004, 11:07 AM)
Well whether or not the Gays have "rights" is irrelevant. If you are christian and follow christian teachings and principals there is only on answer to the marriage question for gays and that is NO. The bible says in no uncertain terms what a marriage union is and between whom. CelticPride says that it is not a marriage rights issue but one of civil law, even with that I cannot agree because under Gods laws gays are an abomination to his creation.

Aon this is where the Founding Father based their christian principles from, the Bible, not a single church organization.

Even this is oversimplified. It depends on which Christian sect you are refering to. The different sects can't even agree on what day of the week is the Sabbath, let alone more complex issues. tongue.gif


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RavenWing 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 12:28 PM
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QUOTE
Well whether or not the Gays have "rights" is irrelevant. If you are christian and follow christian teachings and principals there is only on answer to the marriage question for gays and that is NO.


If that is the case, then how do you account for the United Church of Christ as well as the Presbyterian church?


QUOTE
CelticPride says that it is not a marriage rights issue but one of civil law, even with that I cannot agree because under Gods laws gays are an abomination to his creation.

Aon this is where the Founding Father based their christian principles from, the Bible, not a single church organization.


"God's laws" and Civil law are not interchangeable.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 12:38 PM
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ooh Highlander! it's not irrelevant since your constitution states everyone has the right to the pursuit of happiness! Íf gay or not, I don't care but you violate your own constitution (is it the 3rd point? I don't know anymore) when you say they don't have rights.
Maybe the american nation was built on Christian morality but it is still a secular state, which means church doesn't have anything to say about legal rights for anybody.
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Shamalama 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 02:17 PM
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For better or worse America's founding fathers saw fit to make America a free country, not a Christian one.

America is a democratic republic, not a theocracy. Our laws are designed to control bad behavior, not outline a faith. And, as a Christian, I like it much better that way. I really get irritated when someone, especially the government, tells me how I have to believe. Must be my Scottish-Protestant ancestry.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 18-Feb-2004, 02:23 PM
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nope.. in scotland the catholics were the prosecuted ones.. look at the Morníngside Riots in (I think) the 30's... Catriona could probably tell you more about that.

In prussia the catholics were prosecuted as well...

Edit: I was going to try and find and post a link but I can't find anything....
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maisky 
Posted on 25-Feb-2004, 08:51 AM
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Here is the latest twist in this issue from theonion.com

http://www.theonion.com/news.php?i=1&n=1
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Shamalama 
Posted on 02-Mar-2004, 11:04 AM
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Now let's look at a political twist to all of this:

What does democracy mean if any headstrong minority can violate the laws passed by a majority and enshrined in centuries of legal precedents?

Some headstrong minorities have taken to the streets and some have violated the rule of law in the very courts of law, while wearing their judicial robes. In San Francisco, a mayor is openly defying state law, and both the judges and the state attorney general are too scared to do anything, for fear of angering homosexual voters.

Gay marriage is an issue solely because a few headstrong judges in Massachusetts and an opportunistic mayor in San Francisco decided that they were above the law. Even in two ultra-liberal states like California and Massachusetts, the voters do not want gay marriage.

To those for whom their own goals over-ride everything else, this just means that the voters and the law must be disregarded. But if those on the left feel free to violate the law, why not those on the right? And where does that lead?

Is it OK, as long as "you know that you're right", to do as you please?

Gay marriage is not a local issue but a national issue because maintaining the rule of law -- or what is left of it -- is a national issue of historic importance if we are not to see America degenerate into the world's largest banana republic, or worse.

The time is long overdue to start impeaching judges who think their job is to veto laws they don't like or condone lawlessness that they agree with. The time is also long overdue to re-examine lifetime appointments of judges, which allows them to act like little tin gods, at the expense of our freedom and the country's elected government.



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maisky 
Posted on 02-Mar-2004, 12:58 PM
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[QUOTE=shamalama,Mar 2 2004, 11:04 AM] Now let's look at a political twist to all of this:

What does democracy mean if any headstrong minority can violate the laws passed by a majority and enshrined in centuries of legal precedents?

At one point, slavery fit this definition.

Sir, I agree with your conclusion about reviewing the concept of lifetime appointments for judges. There is very little oversite of judicial behavior. I agree that protecting our individual liberties is VERY important.

For your other points, "Even in two ultra-liberal states like California and Massachusetts, the voters do not want gay marriage. " The last polls I saw showed the public to be about evenly split on the issue, nationally.

Since when is Mass. a liberal state? It has public servants that are pretty much across the spectrum. As for California, I dare you to call Arnold a liberal to his face. biggrin.gif
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Shamalama 
Posted on 02-Mar-2004, 01:52 PM
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Political twist, vol. 2

Then you have the Official Platform of the Libertarian Party:

QUOTE

We believe that adults have the right to private choice in consensual sexual activity.

We oppose any government attempt to dictate, prohibit, control, or encourage any private lifestyle, living arrangement or contractual relationship.

We support repeal of existing laws and policies which are intended to condemn, affirm, encourage, or deny sexual lifestyles or any set of attitudes about such lifestyles.


But is "consensual sexual activity" a Pandora's Box that, once opened, would lead to a wide-ranging interpretation? Man-man, man-woman-man, man-man-woman-woman, etc.

Or is this simply an example of "I want my morals upheld by law while throwing yours to the wind"?

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