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> Do You Support Gay Marriage?
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Do you support Gay marriage?
Yes [ 13 ]  [41.94%]
No [ 17 ]  [54.84%]
Unsure [ 1 ]  [3.23%]
Total Votes: 31
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 08:15 AM
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And my views are what? as a matter of fact, who cares? I really do not see what all the Hub-bub is about this.

1. Is there any Law stating that they are not allowed to be gay?

2. Is there any Law stating that they are not allowed to live together?

3. Are both suppose to pay their Taxes (Not trying to start something here on that subject)?

4. Is there any Law stopping them from writing a Will in case of the other passes?

What is the Problem?


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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 08:33 AM
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QUOTE
And my views are what? as a matter of fact, who cares? I really do not see what all the Hub-bub is about this.


Put yourself in teh Atheists mond just for a second and you will see what I mean. How would you like it if I pushed a law saying you had to be an aethist for one day a week. Would you like this? No you wouldn't cause that is my choice of in this case non religion not your choice. That would be me pushing my choice of religious views onto you violating your right to believe as you do.

QUOTE
1. Is there any Law stating that they are not allowed to be gay?

2. Is there any Law stating that they are not allowed to live together?

3. Are both suppose to pay their Taxes (Not trying to start something here on that subject)?

4. Is there any Law stopping them from writing a Will in case of the other passes?


OK now these I have asked several times and so far no answers. Where is government even given the power to legislatively control marriage? I have asked this several times and no replies as of yet. As for laws though since the questions were raised.

1. not sure as I don't know the laws of every state.

2. Same answer.

3. well being they can't get married in most states they don't receive the same benifits a married couple gets.

4. if it was this simple there would be no case but as I understand it the family can contest the will and win since most states don't recognize gay marriages or relationships per say so the family can usually win as I understand it. But even hospitals for instance won't release info to the gay partner unless tha patient gives permission and if that patiens in a coma??? unsure.gif

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What is the Problem?


I think I have made it clear this morning that religious views and beliefs are just that religious views and beliefs and don't effect those that do not partake in that religion. And those views can never effect others outside that religion cause then at least here in the US that religion is infringing on the individuals right to believe as they do in regards to this. If for instance the catholic church tried to push their views on a baptist that is trying to infringe on the baptists right to follow the views of his/her religion.

And in my view majority rule is wrong cause how do you really know the majority agrees with you? 300 million people (nearly) and how do you know that 50.000000000000000000000000000001% agree with you? Unless there is a vote by more then the members of congress you don't know and never will know and even with the vote there is always a question on it as can be seen with the last election circus.
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 08:53 AM
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 08:57 AM
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WARNING

I have had 2 nights of sleep now after 2 days of not any so I am in a good mood to debate.

Aside from that.

First of all, I don't have to imagine what it is like to be Atheist. I am a non Christian and I still have to listen to all the Christians about it.

Second, as far as the wills goes, it doesn't make any difference if there was a will or not, speaking from experience. When my Wife and her Sister lost everything that was in their Father's Will to another woman he had married later on for a few short years. She infact took everything and my Wife and her Sister could not even get any of their Family Heirlooms. He did have a Will too with my Wife as the Executor, but was told by our Lawyer that it was nullified due to the new marriage.

In as far as any Law that does not involve any Religious Conviction. Are you saying that the only Lawmakers that would be allowed have to be Atheist?
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:05 AM
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In as far as any Law that does not involve any Religious Conviction. Are you saying that the only Lawmakers that would be allowed have to be Atheist?


I never said that but they don't have a right to push their religious views into law because those religious views obviously are not the views of everyone else. The laws have to be appplied fairly to all and when a law says that one class is protected by the law while the other is discrimnated against by this law it can't have any force. I mean lets say a law was passed that stated that we all have to be catholics. Obviously those that are already catholics this law doesn't effect since they are already doing this but those that are non catholics it then applies to and forces them to have to give up their religion.

See this is why we have a separation of church and state that way we do not end up with state ordered religion like you have in some countries. And since there is a separation of church and state laws in my view can't deal with religious aspects. Like a good example is the pledge case. I support the court because in my view government never had a right to endorse that there is a god because that does not represent every person. but this is a separate topic so keep replies to a minimum on this or start a new thread replies are fine just don't want to mix the threads up wink.gif
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:18 AM
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Suppose that an Atheist was against such a Marriage Law (or what ever you want to call it) with Gays?
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:25 AM
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Like I said show me where congress can legislatively control marriage. I don't see this in the Constitution. wink.gif

But lets say it hypothetically. If an aethist was against it so what that's his/her views and he/she doesn't have the right baring one group of people the same right the rest have. That's called discrimination.
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:32 AM
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I do not think that the Government has any right what so ever when it comes to Any Kind of Marriage. It even upsets me when someone is not considered Married unless they were married by someone who is licensed for it. Is that not having the Government interferring?
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:41 AM
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Exactly and personally I feel even religion should not be worrying about marriage except as how it applies to their own religion I mean if two aethists want to get married it's none of religions concern for people that do not follow their (Religions) beliefs.
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 09:52 AM
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sad.gif Depressed now, I was wanting a good debate and now I can't even disagree with your last statement. sad.gif
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 10:30 AM
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Sorry wink.gif
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Jan 26 2004, 10:30 AM)
Sorry wink.gif

I will forgive you this time but don't let it happen again! wink.gif
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 11:06 AM
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Well when you think of it in common sense ther's no argument. wink.gif
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Richard Bercot 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 11:13 AM
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QUOTE (scottish2 @ Jan 26 2004, 11:06 AM)
Well when you think of it in common sense ther's no argument. wink.gif

I do remember something in one of the Amendment stating that Common Sense is not permitted because it just made to much sense.
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scottish2 
Posted on 26-Jan-2004, 11:29 AM
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Yeah can't have Thomas Paines theories flying around least we forget his pamphlet Common Sense.
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