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> God's Existence, Gods evidence seems lacking
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Cailiosa 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 12:42 AM
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QUOTE (Annabelle @ Dec 7 2003, 11:08 PM)
Have you ever heard of the "Dead Sea Scrolls"?

Very goood for justifying the existence of the bible.

Annabelle

Sure thing, Annabelle. I did a report on them in my Archeaology class a year ago. Though I don't remember many details about them as my memory stinks, I know there are quite a few Biblical Archeaology websites that have a wealth of information on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I can try to round a few up if anybody would like to learn more about them.


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Raven 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 09:01 AM
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At the risk of being called a know it all (I've not been able to determine if some comments were directed at me or not tongue.gif shrugs and goes on wink.gif )

One of the cool things about the Dead Sea scrolls is that the provide conclusive evidence that the book of Danial (at least many portions) were acutally written before the events occurred making the writings prophesy as opposed to what some sceptics have written about Danial (saying it was predated)

I'm not sure that is the kind of evidence that Macy was looking for as I understood him/her to be looking for proof of a god/creator in a general.

I also posted information in the "Religeous Debate Thread" about a show that I saw on Discovery that indicates historical accuracy in the account of the life of Moses.

Interesting stuff! Thanks for bringing it up Annabelle!

Cailiosa, I for one would love to hear more about the Dead Sea Scrolls. (looks over each should and whispers, "speaking for myself")

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myriad 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 12:33 PM
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Hello everyone
If you look back to pg. 2 you will see that I deleted my tantrum. I want to apologize for being irrational. I hope it doesn't discredit everything I have to say in the future. I have locked the soapbox away in the closet for a while so I can return to learning more by listenting. Thank you all for your insight and thank you for your understanding.
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Cailiosa 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 01:50 PM
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For anyone who is interested . . .

http://www.bib-arch.org/
Actually a magazine, though it provides a variety of resources on biblical archaeology in general, several of them on the Dead Sea Scrolls. I remember being given this site by my Archaeology professor as a worthwhile source for my report.

http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/discoveries/scrolls.htm
Just stumbled upon this one . . . seems like a winner. Might be worth your while to check out the entire site if you're interested in the connection of science to the Bible, Biblical Archaeology, etc. . Also has a section on if God exists (found under the Bible and Science section on the main page).

http://www.ibiblio.org/expo/deadsea.scrolls.exhibit/intro.html
The website for the Dead Sea Scrolls exhibit at the Library of Congress. Provides background information on the scrolls as well as links where one may find more information on them.

http://orion.mscc.huji.ac.il/
Used their information in writing my paper. The Orion center works out of the Hebrew University in Jerusalem and is dedicated to the study of the Dead Sea Scrolls and associated literature. Very helpful -- have a faq list and many science based resources.

Enjoy! Be sure to report back if you find anything interesting. tongue.gif
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maggiemahone1 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 07:30 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 8 2003, 05:33 AM)

And if so does he/she/they/it wonder where he/she/they/it went so horribly wrong?
wink.gif

If any of you are bible readers, you have read in the Old Testament ...God was very sorry that he created mankind. sad.gif I think we have went from bad to worst.

I can't give anyone any scientific evidence that there is a God. I only know what I feel in my heart and the great peace I have knowing God.

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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 07:45 PM
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*smiles wickedly* call me an idiot but I can imagine why God was sorry for it *laughs* I mean there is not much to be proud of in humankind is there?


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Raven 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 08:54 PM
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QUOTE (maggiemahone1 @ Dec 8 2003, 07:30 PM)

If any of you are bible readers, you have read in the Old Testament ...God was very sorry that he created mankind. sad.gif I think we have went from bad to worst.


Good Point Maggie

I forget about that from time to time. According to the flood account if he hadn't have found Noah he would have just wiped us all out and started over.


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maggiemahone1 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 09:02 PM
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note.gif Who built the ark? Noah, Noah, Who built the ark? Brother Noah built the ark! note.gif biggrin.gif Remember that song?

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Raven 
Posted: 08-Dec-2003, 11:17 PM
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Dang Maggie

You are making me feel old. I sang that song in my first grade music class back in the days when sonic booms filled the air and before that sort of behavior became illegal in public schools.

It's good to remenisce though. I really loved that music teacher.

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CelticRadio 
Posted: 09-Dec-2003, 08:02 PM
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Im not about to bestow my religious beliefs on you all, but to simply point out the fact that everything around is so wonderfully engineered......take the human body for instance....millions of cells working in conjunction allowing us to live and breath.

The weather, the earth, the environment, the ocean, the sun.....wow; to design such wonderful things.......did these just happen on their own or is their some great creator behind it all............

makes you wonder?


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted: 09-Dec-2003, 08:11 PM
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alas the wee breath of life seems to be it.. mellow.gif I mean, that could have been done by an electrical shock. *playing devils advocate here*
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Raven 
Posted: 09-Dec-2003, 11:39 PM
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I guess that is the point "a wee breath of life" wink.gif ellequently put, and you are a wee bit of a divil lass tongue.gif

The fact that a god/higher power has to exist is for me a given and has nothing to do with any religeon the bible or anything else on a faith/spiritual level. That is an entirely different issue. I used to think that people who fell back on the god thing were mentally week and then I looked closer at the evidence myself. It really took just a few basics to change me from agnostic to looking for which god but that is a debate for another thread biggrin.gif .

The Second Law of Thermodynamics indicates that without any outside intervention left to their own devices things tend to move towards chaos instead of order. No where in Physics is it indicated that this law differentiates between living and non-living and it is a law of Physics.

I can believe in certain parts of evolution. Natural Selection for example and I could even buy the electrical stimulation idea...after all it worked for Shelly in the Frankenstein story.

The problem I have with macro evolution explaining the current state of life on earth is the lack of evidence for it. If you ask an evolutionist (I'm talking macro mind you molecules to man/Monkeys to man)

That particular science I find to be very unscientific. If Macro evolution were true there should be at least some evidence in the fossel record of transitional forms. Like a Lucy that did not turn out to be a hoax for example. A reason that Evolution is still spoken of as a theory.

Even looking at our lives, the way we try to do things to prolong them. This is another example of winding down moving toward chaos, the system degenerating.

It would be much easier for me to believe that we all just magically appeared as super geniuses as a result of some sort of weird interaction between chemicals and electricity and were now devolving into monkeys then to fish etc ... than the other way arround.

I personally think it takes a lot more faith to not believe in a god or higher being regardless of who that you think he/she or it is than to believe (strictly in light of scientific evidence and all that science teaches us) that the universe and life in it on our planet in particular, is a result of chance.

The electrical interaction theory though interesting seems to fly in the face of solid hard science. And while I do not believe that science has all the answers it certainly can be useful in determining what is likely to have happened and what is unlikely.

My tupence added once again free of charge tongue.gif

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andylucy 
Posted: 10-Dec-2003, 03:22 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 9 2003, 10:39 PM)
Like a Lucy that did not turn out to be a hoax for example.

Careful there guy! biggrin.gif


QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 9 2003, 10:39 PM)
I personally think it takes a lot more faith to not believe in a god or higher being regardless of who that you think he/she or it is than to believe (strictly in light of scientific evidence and all that science teaches us) that the universe and life in it on our planet in particular, is a result of chance.


I agree with you wholeheartedly. It just makes more sense for there to be a God Who started everything. And as Albert Einstein once said, "God doesn't play dice with the universe." wink.gif Pure chance just doesn't cover it. At least not to me.

Just my tuppence.

Andy


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Raven 
Posted: 10-Dec-2003, 09:09 AM
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I didn't mean like "AndyLucy" unsure.gif I know that you are for real tongue.gif
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Shadows 
Posted: 15-Dec-2003, 12:46 PM
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Just to play devils advocate here:

Where did the spark come from? Where did the matter it sparked come from?

Even the most basic and miniscule thing has to have a source of begining!

Put on your thinking caps friends and answer those questions.

As I stated, I am just playing the devils advocate!!! angel_not.gif

Is the universe and all in it an accident or planed?


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