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> Does The Truth Matter, how important do you feel the truth is
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Raven 
Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 11:33 AM
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QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Dec 30 2003, 02:04 PM)


The truth is a very tricky subject...I've read everyone's responses and opinions...

In my opinion the "Truth" is soild and never changes...only our perception or understanding of that "Truth" changes. So "Truth" is faithful. A wise man once said, "Seek and you shall find...knock and it shall be opened to you...You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free indeed"...

I agree with this completely Roisin. It is only our perception and vanity that make the truth seem fuzzy or inconsistent. I.E. it is either not what we would like for it to be and is therefore offensive or we are trusting the wrong sources and it is therefore confusing.

I like Maisky have studied the philosophy,social sciences,physical sciences,(including quantum if you want to call that physical - I find it to be metaphysical and personally believe it should be grouped with philosophy) and some higher math (depending on what higher math means to you - mathematical indications for other dimensions etc - calculus, differential equations etc). I started these studies in college and after graduation had a lot of time to do continuing study which I found to be the most profitable for sorting out independent of the pressures for a grade ideas which seemed to lack merit based on a logical argument.

I'm not saying that I am any smarter than those who put forth certain "scientific arguments" but I am good at following their arguments to holes, for example when they make a quantum leap to an idea that is not proven and will present "their perception" as the reality.(oddly enough this does occur in the sciences and people are believed for who they are rather than what they say) This is something that seems to be common whether in science, philosophy, or religion (oddly enough the 3 subjects grouped together in this forum--scratches head) This problem is further amplified when people give theories or postulates the same weight as laws or if in perceived difficulties (generally arising from different perspectives or symatical issues) the evidence is percieved as giving conflicting answers.

However, like Single Speed says and Maisky alludes to. When it comes to the Truth, the worst problem we all have is being truthful with ourselves let alone in general.

I personally think that the worst sort of bondage that any person can put themselves into is that of not being as totally truthful with him/her self as they are capable. There truly is freedom available in honesty.

I want to thank you all for your posts in this thread as I truly have enjoyed seeing all of your thoughts and hopefully we are learning more about each other as a result. wink.gif

Peace

Mikel


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Elspeth 
Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 11:58 AM
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I think in some ways this can be simplified by using the Golden Rule - asking ourselves how we want to be treated. If we don't want to to be lied to then we shouldn't lie to others.

If being lied to doesn't bother you, that is another issue entirely. Then it becomes clouded and fuzzy. But there still is a responsibility to do what is best for the community.

Lying, more often than not, is a way to shirk responsibility - to other individuals, to the community and mostly to ourselves.


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maisky 
  Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 12:49 PM
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That's it!!! We are being too serious again! More Li'ker!!! Must make a New Year resolution for more Li'ker! biggrin.gif


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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 01:26 PM
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QUOTE
This problem is further amplified when people give theories or postulates the same weight as laws or if in perceived difficulties (generally arising from different perspectives or symatical issues) the evidence is percieved as giving conflicting answers.


Raven,

I too have studied philosophy, religion, and science (now math is another story---I went far as I had to go---I hate math wink.gif ) at a well known Jesuit university. I have learned from great thinkers and theorists, but it never shook what I truly believed in. I took all this "thought" into consideration, but it could not over shadow my experience or relationship with God. I found that God is Truth. Now, I'm not talking about "religion" but a relationship. It is from this relationship, I've have come close to seeing the face of God. I have felt his love and mercy since I was about eight years old. But some will say this is your truth according to your preceptions or dellusions---well, I'm not raving, only stating what I know to be true in my own life.

Let me give this example: There are "laws" set in this physical world---right? Laws of gravity, chemistry, physics that we as a human race have discovered to be certain truths. I am sure after the atom was finally seen under a micro-scope it blew some of the orignial theory out of the water in how it was made up. Another example, before man believed that the world was round---it was still round. Correct? Just because we can't see something or have actually scientific data to back up what we believe is true doesn't negate that truth from being.

What I'm trying to say is I have data to back-up what I believe in. Some might laugh in disgust or say the poor girl is loopy---but God's love for me is more real than the air I breath. For me, He is the foundation of the truth I try to live by. I believe there are two realms---the physical and the Spiritual. They are coexisting side by side and yet interwined...

oops.gif I think my 15 minutes are up...time to give someone else a spin on the ol'soapbox. angel_not.gif


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Elspeth 
Posted: 01-Jan-2004, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (Roisin-Teagan @ Dec 31 2003, 01:26 PM)
Some might laugh in disgust or say the poor girl is loopy---but God's love for me is more real than the air I breath. For me, He is the foundation of the truth I try to live by.

Roisin,

You, most definately, are NOT loopy. smile.gif

Intangibles are more real than anything touchable. I think we can all know the truth. We just don't want to have to live by it.

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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 01-Jan-2004, 01:12 PM
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Thanks Elspeth. smile.gif

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Raven 
Posted: 01-Jan-2004, 02:33 PM
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I agree with all that you said Roisen and feel much the same way. I know why I believe what I believe and can present evidence to anyone who is willing to look at it. (I'm kind of a law and order kind of guy when it comes to science and theology -- you are absolutely right it is all about relationship and religeon is a separate and often relationship destroying issue)

Just because something is intangible doesn't mean it isn't real or true. I don't think anyone appreciates being lied to.

Also just so it is clear where I stand.......I think that the truth is more important than anything....I think that there is both absolute truth and relative truth(perhaps conditional truth would be a better word)

Sorry if I come off as a smart alec with this next one,,, but I just can't help myself tongue.gif

To anyone who truly believes that there are no absolutes or absolute truths.....Is that an absolute statement? laugh.gif

Peace to all and a happy new year.

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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 02-Jan-2004, 08:44 AM
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QUOTE
Sorry if I come off as a smart alec with this next one,,, but I just can't help myself 
To anyone who truly believes that there are no absolutes or absolute truths.....Is that an absolute statement? 
Peace to all and a happy new year.
Mikel


You are absolutly...funny! laugh.gif That's a good one Mikel. biggrin.gif

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Kiwi Gael 
Posted: 05-Feb-2004, 02:15 AM
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freekenny 
Posted: 17-Aug-2004, 11:53 PM
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O'siyo,
Question: 'Does the truth matter'?...*note this is my opinion only* lookaround.gif
Bottom line, the truth is just that..whether it be about your hair or a dress or pondering about life and perhaps an answer that you aren't ready to accept..still remains the same..if you wish to have/know the truth then accept it and go on..if there is such a thing as an absolute truth then no matter how one may dread it (truth), feel it may be painful, or perhaps it may be something they don't wish to hear, the truth does matter..if you don't want the truth from others, don't ask of it from them... find your own truth and leave others out of your realm of truth, honesty and deceit bag.gif
In my opinion, truth can never be just half of an answer nor can it be half accepted sleep.gif
~~Sty-U red_bandana.gif


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Mayte2 
Posted: 18-Aug-2004, 11:47 AM
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Aaaaaaah Truth. user posted image I believe it is something we all seek in one form or another. Whether it be the truth of how we came about and continue to exist or whether it be the truth of how we look, feel, and act with others.

Personally I agree with Elspeth. I could have written exactly what she said. I have been lied to horribly in the past. I have had things hidden and I feel I need to know everything and be told the complete truth in everything because of it. (Even if I do look like a complete pile of cr*p!!!!)

Question ... Is the following a lie?

Scenario ...

He gets a text message on his phone.
I ask .. What does it say?
He says .. She (his ex) wants to know what time I'm picking the kids up tomorrow.
I say .. What time are you picking them up?
He says .. about 9ish.

Conversation ends. Later, I found out that she had also asked him (in the same text message) to take her to work. Note .. I find out .. he doesn`t tell me.

Did he lie when he didn't tell me the additional info? I say yes. As it happened he didn`t take her to work. He lied outright to her and told her he had to be elsewhere. (He didn't) Again, I found this out, he didn`t tell me. Kids eh? Don't you wish they'd keep their mouths shut!!!!

I know why he doesn't tell me stuff like that. Its because he doesn't want me to get angry - She (his ex) treats him like dirt because she's got the kids and threatens him with access every time he doesn't do what she wants. I get REAL angry user posted image at the way she treats him sometimes. So, to keep everyone happy, he keeps things hidden. Problem is .. the truth always comes out. I get more angry at him lying (omitting things) than I do at him telling the truth (giving me the full facts)

I know in the great big scheme of things (life, the universe and everything) that its not a huge issue, but it is to me. And thats whats important, how I feel, and how I want to be treated.

And thats the truth (or is it??)


Mayte


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reddrake79 
Posted: 20-Aug-2004, 07:06 PM
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"Truth" doesn't matter what we think about it. It is still going to be the truth about something (I apologize if someone has already covered this ground, I got excited reading some of the posts and jumped ahead) To some degree truth can be relative to the person speeking it. Make sure everybody involved has the same understanding of certaing things or what referance you are using for your statement.

One day as I walked through the door to my room in college, my roomate (who is known for making the truth bend like an olympic gymnast) tongue.gif asked me "Was teaching secondary on your mind when you came here (college)?" fox.gif
I said, "Yes"
He started typing furiously on his computer. I went over and read over his shoulder. He was saying that I came to college looking for a girl and that studies were seconday to everything else. Now even though I answered his question truthfully,as I saw it, He was writing a lie because of the answer I gave.

See, I was a History Education Major, science minor, Both of these emphasize Secondary School (High School) teaching. I understood the question to be "Was teaching high school on your mind when you came here. Even When I corrected him, and pulled out a dictionary nono.gif to prove that secondary means High School, he continued to write the original anyway because I gave him the answer He was looking for. ( he was only writting a letter home:)) The truth was that Teaching High School was why I went to college. However, Was his letter telling the truth too because I had a different understanding of the question than he ment?

A person can say, "The earth is flat." and be absolutly correct as long as he is talking about the 6 feet or so of ground in front of him. It depends on what you are using as a referance, but i do believe in asolute truths and laws and that the truth is not relative to the observer.

Police officer, "Do you know that you were speeding back there?:
idiot driver, "No officer."
Police officer, "How fast were you going?"
idiot driver, "45 mph"
Police officer, "What was the speed limit?"
idiot driver, "25"
police officer, "Don't you think thats speeding?"
idiot driver, "No officer, 50 would be speeding."
The truth was the guy (not me) was speeding and still got a ticket.

two phrases
"The truth will get you" "The truth will set you free"


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reddrake79 
Posted: 20-Aug-2004, 07:16 PM
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Im going to pick on maisky a little, no harm intended smile.gif, just want to hear your answer to this. If there are no absolute truths, then your statement "...as for absolute truths, the world just doesn't work that way." would be an absolute truth and thus make your own statement false. I am curious as to how the world doesn't work with absolute truths. Wouldn't the laws of science be absolute truth? not talking about theories but the laws of thermodynamics, law of gravity, etc.
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Aaediwen 
Posted: 21-Aug-2004, 04:46 AM
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There's always a chance all those laws could be complete hogwash and we could all be living a lie. I agree that it's not likely. And I agree that, in all probability, they are true. But it just takes one radical idea to change the world. One radical idea made the world round instead of flat. One radical idea placed the sun, not Earth, at the center of our solar system. It could happen. It has before.


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maisky 
Posted: 21-Aug-2004, 08:27 AM
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QUOTE (reddrake79 @ 20-Aug-2004, 06:16 PM)
Im going to pick on maisky a little, no harm intended smile.gif, just want to hear your answer to this. If there are no absolute truths, then your statement "...as for absolute truths, the world just doesn't work that way." would be an absolute truth and thus make your own statement false. I am curious as to how the world doesn't work with absolute truths. Wouldn't the laws of science be absolute truth? not talking about theories but the laws of thermodynamics, law of gravity, etc.

I hate to say this, but you COULD be right! biggrin.gif

There ARE some of the basics of how the universe functions that SEEM to be absolute, but that could simply be because of our limited understanding.
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