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> Does The Truth Matter, how important do you feel the truth is
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JaneyMae 
  Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 07:27 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 17 2003, 07:55 AM)
This is a good question JaneyMae. I wonder. Is it parents? environment? a society that teaches getting what you want out of life is all that's important? laziness? or is it sometimes pysiological? A genetic abnormality? Or maybe 'the devil made me do it'

With most of my beasties -- er....students, I have found that they follow their parents' lead. Also, they lie and their parents say, "If my baby says it's so then it must be true," teaching the kids that they can lie and get away with it. Our society also teaches that you must get all you can and the rest of humanity be damned.

I always used "the devil made me do it" to keep from getting a taste of my dad's belt. Now I just try to keep my mouth shut...............except when I'm in here angel_not.gif


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Raven 
Posted: 22-Dec-2003, 09:59 PM
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and when kids are taught to lie the only ones they end up fooling are themselves because it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew rolleyes.gif

I believe that in the end because they are not able to face up to the truth on any level it becomes harmful on every level


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maisky 
  Posted: 23-Dec-2003, 08:53 AM
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QUOTE (JaneyMae @ Dec 22 2003, 07:27 PM)
With most of my beasties -- er....students, I have found that they follow their parents' lead. Also, they lie and their parents say, "If my baby says it's so then it must be true," teaching the kids that they can lie and get away with it. Our society also teaches that you must get all you can and the rest of humanity be damned.

I always used "the devil made me do it" to keep from getting a taste of my dad's belt. Now I just try to keep my mouth shut...............except when I'm in here angel_not.gif

I'll tell! I'll tell!! smile.gif


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JaneyMae 
Posted: 23-Dec-2003, 05:25 PM
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Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't partytime.gif
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JaneyMae 
Posted: 23-Dec-2003, 05:25 PM
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Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't partytime.gif
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JaneyMae 
Posted: 23-Dec-2003, 05:25 PM
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Pleae don't tell Dad!!!! I'll clean your room if you won't partytime.gif
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maidsmum 
Posted: 27-Dec-2003, 12:48 PM
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My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".

I think that the truth is very important - if someone is upfront and honest (diplomatically and tactfully) then that is always better than a lie. Even if it is to spare your feelings, things can be put in a way that doesn't cause too much offence - how much worse would you feel in the long run when you find out the truth??

There are degrees of truth, depending on our own selves, my interpretation would be different to someone elses - but this happens in all aspects of our lives and there is not a lot you can do about it!!

angel_not.gif

In saying that I cant say I don't ever lie. Some lies are easy (eg knocking a few pounds off the price of stuff!), some are done just to make life a bit easier, rather than get into a row with others, keep the peace, bite your tongue and go along with a lie.

Guess I'm sitting on the fence on this one then!
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Elspeth 
Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 11:03 AM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 22 2003, 09:59 PM)
it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew

That is an insightfully beautiful line, Raven. Is it yours?


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Raven 
Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 11:21 AM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Dec 30 2003, 11:03 AM)
QUOTE (Raven @ Dec 22 2003, 09:59 PM)
it is very difficult to conceal the tangled web once it is revealed in the morning dew

That is an insightfully beautiful line, Raven. Is it yours?

Dang Elspeth ---you are right that is a great line tongue.gif and it is mine --- I think you will find that in a song soon. Thanks for pointing it out. I just typed it in and forgot it,,, I can hardly believe that I wrote something like that. It just goes to show you that even a blind pig (or raven) finds and acorn every now and then. wink.gif

Thank you so much for pointing this out to me.

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Elspeth 
Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 11:26 AM
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And I was going to add if it was yours you had to use it somewhere, it struck right to the heart as soon as I read it, but you're a step ahead of me.

I think that warrents a song all its own.

Dew on the Web has a nice ring. smile.gif
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JaneyMae 
  Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 01:04 PM
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QUOTE (maidsmum @ Dec 27 2003, 11:48 AM)
My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".


Your mum was an insightful lady! And that's the truth angel_not.gif
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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 02:04 PM
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QUOTE
My friends mum used to say "I'd rather someone was a thief than a liar, because eventually you will catch the thief out".


I agree this is very true. smile.gif

The truth is a very tricky subject...I've read everyone's responses and opinions...

In my opinion the "Truth" is soild and never changes...only our perception or understanding of that "Truth" changes. So "Truth" is faithful. A wise man once said, "Seek and you shall find...knock and it shall be opened to you...You shall know the truth and the truth shall make you free indeed"...

Now to be honest with a friend about something touchy or embarassing---this is my take...
It has been said, 'Open rebuke is better than secret love'...'Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.' I think the motivation of your heart should gage whether you should be totally honest. Are you telling your friend to help them or are you being critical?

Just my three pence worth,
Roisin angel_not.gif


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single speed 
Posted: 30-Dec-2003, 11:23 PM
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The truth reveals that we, as a race are human. We are mortal. Our humanity reveals that we are both weak and strong, kind and sinister, selfish and helpful. In the context of our envirnoment, one human is no better than the other.

Our vanity gets us into as much troublle as our lies. If we ask a question that we know that the answer may not be waht we want to hear, then we should not ask it, unless we are willing to correct what is revealed by the answer.

By lying in the context of disservice to another, we dehumanize those that we lie to, especially ourselves. If we use the truth for the same reason ("as a club"), we again dehumanize.

The human condition is beset with lots of baggage. Looking inward to discover the truth about ourselves is a way of opening and inventorying and later, disgarding some of our baggage. Yet even this discovery doe'nt make us better tnhan another person. we are still equal.

Learning the truth is difficult. Doing something about it is a gift.

terence

PS Fantastic thread, Raven. Thanks


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maisky 
  Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 09:02 AM
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The biggest problem I see is that we are ALL lires. We lie primarily to ourselves, but there you are...A clear view of reality is rare and difficult. Our conclusions based on the view through a "clouded glass" are lies, as often as not. As for "absolute" truths, the universe just doesn't work that way.

After studying philosophy, social sciences, physical sciences, and most of all, higher mathematics, all questions wind up having multiple valid answers. Confusing huh? biggrin.gif
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Elspeth 
Posted: 31-Dec-2003, 11:09 AM
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I know I already responded, but this is bugging me.

When we lie to people to 'protect' them, who are we really protecting? Them or ourselves?

To follow up on what Terence was saying, we aren't doing those we lie to a service. In fact, I find being lied to horrifically patronizing. It is that other person deciding what I can or cannot handle. Deciding for me what is best for me. Taking it upon themselves to label me too infantile to handle the truth.

Then what happens when the truth comes out? Do I feel 'protected'? No, I feel humiliated and angry. Very angry.

I tell my family I can handle anything but being lied to. Lying ruins relationships, erodes trust and separates people. And I mean all types of lying. From the big ones to the little white variety.

I am not a comfortable person to be around, for I make a point of not lying. People who know me, know better than to ask me what I am thinking, for I will tell them. But I don?t share my thoughts unless invited to do so with anyone other than those nearest and dearest to me. And those nearest and dearest to me aren?t always too happy to hear what I have to say, and yet one and all have thanked me for my honesty later, for it helped them to grow. Something that doesn?t happen when we stay comfortable.

(six paragraphs this time single speed)
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