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Should we do more in memorial to Confederate Soliders?
Yes. [ 53 ]  [65.43%]
No. [ 28 ]  [34.57%]
Total Votes: 81
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 15-Jan-2004, 10:38 AM
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I don't think so.

It's always silly

But that's offtopic.gif happy.gif


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Annabelle 
Posted on 15-Jan-2004, 10:39 PM
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Yea we were talking about Confederate memories and after the WWI and II discussion I though we were way off topic. But I'm always interested in new subjects.
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Eamon 
Posted on 16-Jan-2004, 10:50 AM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Dec 28 2003, 12:37 PM)


My Great Grandfather had the command over a submarine in WW2 and since he never did anything to actually support the Nationalist Government, he was cleared by the allies to help building up a new German Navy. He became an Admiral later in his life and he was proud of what he accomplished.

A_D, do you know what submarine he commanded? Churchill paid the U-Boat crews the highest complement by stating that the only thing he was really afraid of in the war, were the U-Boats. His quote went something like this

"The only thing that ever frightened me during the war was the U-boat peril."

Good on ya for naming you (future) son after him.

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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 16-Jan-2004, 07:56 PM
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I also know half of the crew, eamonn =) His funeral was one of the most beautiful I have ever seen, he was cherished much by people of the government as an Admiral and as fellow soldier by those working under him.
He was a "no-fuss" kind of man and even though when it looked as if he was dying and the German Navy wanted to pay him tribute and give them a Fregatte for the funeral he said no and left us enough money to pay the rent for a little yacht.... (his urn was sunk into the sea).

Anyway, Annabelle I butted in because I thought it was about the soldiers themselves, I don't care for what side they fought but grieve for the loss of lives of many young men in any war. it's just about the only wars I can talk about so I added that in to underline my point.
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Eamon 
Posted on 19-Jan-2004, 10:16 AM
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A_D,

Uhm, your Avatar changed. Quite a cutie, that one. Still love your old one, kind of a hesitant, expectant lass, staring quite unabashedly into you inner soul...(or thats what I got out of it.)

Anyway, what boat was it? I have a lot of research material on the Type VIIC class. Off the coast of North Carolina lie the U-85 and U-352. I have dove on the 85 and hope to get down to the 352 this summer. And just so you know, both are recognized war graves, and nothing is removed from the wrecks (aside from an anti-aircraft gun removed from the 352 in the 70's which was on display at a dive shop...wankers...)

Thanks for checking

Eamon
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 19-Jan-2004, 03:41 PM
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I'd have to look it up or ask my grandma.. his boat didn't sink though, else I'd never would have gotten to know my "chocolate-opa" smile.gif (he always distributed little chocolate pieces under his great grandchildren..)
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CelticRadio 
Posted on 23-Jan-2004, 11:31 PM
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QUOTE (Aon_Daonna @ Dec 28 2003, 01:37 PM)
The German army fought because they had to do what they were told. As does every army in this world I dare say.

I honor those of my family that fell in both World Wars, they fought because it was their job. My Great Grandfather had the command over a submarine in WW2 and since he never did anything to actually support the Nationalist Government, he was cleared by the allies to help building up a new German Navy. He became an Admiral later in his life and he was proud of what he accomplished. They didn't fight for ideals, but for their lives, because once war started, only victory, loss or truce can stop it.

Ok, this is a little off topic!

One thing that has always bothered me about that whole time period is how the accomplishments of the German people have not been given due credit. Even though a dictator harnessed the powers generated by this knowledge to do evil, we certainly would not have made it into space without the Germans know how and technology. Maybe not too many people know this, but the same scientist that created the V2 rocket program worked on the Apollo space program and there is even 1 German scientist that still works actively for Nasa! Same for the Russians, there technology came from the Germans.

This is just one example, but we really have benefited from the technology advances made by the Germans. We would have been 50 years behind today if it were not for the technology grab that was made after the war.

Another thing that bothers me is the way Germany was treated after the war, especially by the Russians. I'm not trying to make any excuses for Hitler, he was evil and he was mad. Just like in Iraq, Saddam and his sons were clearly murderers, but we don't punish the Iraq people for this. The atocities committed by the Russians, in my opinion, were some of the worst committed by a government against families that were innocent. But you don't read that in the books at school. No wonder why General Patton wanted to press on into Russia!

I think just like the civil war, both sides need to be honored. Not the murders or the people involved in the holocaust, but like Aon has pointed out - the common lay soldiers who fought and died with bravery and courage.

I'd like to honor my Dad. He was a combat engineer in H & S company, 150th combat engineers, Patton's third army. He was at the Battle of the Bulge! He even received the Certificate of Merit. But he never once bragged nor laid claim to anything about the war. He remained silent, only recalling the places and a few isolated incidents (like being 18 and crawling through a field with mortar and gun fire - his best buddy blown to bits next to him). We didn't even know he received a medal - we found it after he passed away.

Sometimes I think what it would have been like to be him, walking through the woods of Germany, freezing cold, snow...not knowing if you will live or die. Then I realize how easy my life is and quickly drop all my worries. Wow, gotta honor all of those guys from that time period. Just amazing men and an inspiration to us all.

A few years back I found my Dad's picture on a website. My mom was in tears when she took out a torn photograph of him to find out it was a larger picture of the entire company (on the website.) Here is the site if anyone is interested:

150th Combat Engineers

And a little picture of him when he was 18. He is in the back centered.




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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 24-Jan-2004, 06:03 PM
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well.. the guy finishing off the atom bomb was German as well.. as were most scientist working in the bomb.
Credit or not, I do honour the soldiers and I tend to get a wee bit mad if people are trying to tell me not to do that because all Germans are bad *grummels*
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andylucy 
Posted on 25-Jan-2004, 02:58 AM
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QUOTE (Macfive @ Jan 23 2004, 10:31 PM)
Another thing that bothers me is the way Germany was treated after the war, especially by the Russians.  ...  The atocities committed by the Russians, in my opinion, were some of the worst committed by a government against families that were innocent.


I assume that you are referring to the part of Germany occupied by the Soviets. In the western area, it seems they learned from the Versailles Treaty, and didn't punish Germany, but assisted them in rebuilding. I agree that the Soviet atrocities were among the worst, Stalin's purge of the kulaks is a great example.

QUOTE (Macfive @ Jan 23 2004, 10:31 PM)
I'd like to honor my Dad. He was a combat engineer in H & S company, 150th combat engineers, Patton's third army. He was at the Battle of the Bulge! He even received the Certificate of Merit. But he never once bragged nor laid claim to anything about the war.


Huah! You are right to honor your father. Combat engineers are possibly even more at risk during combat ops than infantry because they are trying to do their engineering job as well as fight. My father was with the 84th Engineering Construction Batallion, I Corps, in Korea.

By the way, most of the combat vets I know don't want to talk about it. My father refused to talk about it. Usually, at least in my experience, the more someone talks about their war record, the farther to the rear they were.

Just my tuppence.


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Annabelle 
Posted on 25-Jan-2004, 12:50 PM
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All men should be honored everywhere who served in any capacity during a war. It takes courage, strength and integrity to be involved. They deserve our praises.
A
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Eamon 
Posted on 02-Feb-2004, 12:56 PM
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Just got back from the annual "Battle of the Bulge" commemoration at Fort Indiantown Gap, Pennsylvania. Good event. One of my friends, Jack Agnew always attends. He is a decorated airborne veteran with 3 combat jumps in WWII (He fought with HQ/506 recently portrayed in the HBO Miniseries 'Band Of Brothers'). One of his best friends, Tony, is a german airborne veteran who goes to the Gap every year, and stays in the german re-enactor barracks. The genuine respect that these two 'enemys' share for each other is amazing. Tony always gets a salute from me and my buddies.

Eamon
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peckery 
Posted on 04-Feb-2004, 11:16 AM
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Too many hairs to split here. Some wanted slavery, some were rebelling for states rights, but most I think were poor farmers who didn't have slaves who just saw it as them telling us what to do. (North v South) Yes many a brave man died, but THEY LOST!! I do not think the union they tried to split should build them a statue and say never mind, it was a long time ago. They are not forgotten. If the southern states want to spend their money on a memorial, that is cool. I don't think one belongs in DC though.
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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 04-Feb-2004, 05:44 PM
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at least not assume the "Never mind" attitude.. that would be not valueying the events as they were in my eyes. I agree with you Peckery, they lost. But I think soldiers always deserve a memorial. The reasons of war don't.
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MacErca 
Posted on 04-Feb-2004, 05:50 PM
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If the reason for not having a memorial is "they lost" then why pray tell, do we have a Vietnam Vets memorial in D.C.?
I am a Vietnam Veteran, btw.
I think all soldiers need to be remembered, most time than not the rank and file really has no choice as to who "their war" is with, they just go with as much honor they have in the situation.


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Aon_Daonna 
Posted on 04-Feb-2004, 06:31 PM
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with you on that Mac. The soldiers do the dirty stuff while the higher ups think about the ideology. Ideology doesn't deserve the memorial, soldiers do
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