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3Ravens 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 10:11 PM
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 10:22 PM
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QUOTE (kidclaymore @ Nov 3 2003, 09:27 PM)
The thing is, the people who want to live in peace are in a minority. Sure there's alot of people who want's peace and safety, but those who pray on such people are more numerous. Richard, its nice to live in a small town, But how far is it to the big city next to where you live?. But really it dosn't matter, sooner or later the "bad people" start moving out to the small towns for earier pickings. I hope and pray that this dosn't happen where you live, but I have seen it many times before, It happen to my family and I. The point is unless you move so far out, it will catch up to you no matter what you do. I feel as if scoiety as a whole is breaking down.

Yes we have had some bad people come through our Town. But so did Mayberry.

Yes we live near Large Cities. 9 miles to the West, 18 miles to the Northeast, 15 miles to the Southwest and 17 miles to the Southeast. And anyone living in the country would say that it was a hop, skip and a jump to a City. So we are not too far out from anywhere.

Yes we have had people move into our Town who were not compatable to the Community. Needless to say, they don't stay very long. In the 27 years I have lived here, I can think of only twice, where the non compatable people lived here and they only stayed for a period of no longer than 6 months. If you do something wrong to your neighbor, your are told about it.

And before anyone asks we are not from one family. We are of multiple families that have lived here a long time. And once you have become a part of the Community, nobody wants to leave.

The one thing we do not have here, that I am Thankful for, is the negativity that I see in other place. And I am going to keep it that way.


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sheronjessie 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 10:24 PM
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hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.
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marius 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 10:41 PM
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i don't know. sometimes i think all the world needs is a few people who have community, respect and honour pretty constantly on their minds--perhaps like the ppl who here are outraged at the lack of them--who go off to a deserted island paradise and start the whole thing over again, and this time teach their descendants to do things right. i mean, if our goal were to build community, to love and respect each other, rather than just acquiring more stuff, how wrong could we go?
but then i look at myself (i can only really speak for myself), and i find that i can't keep up those ideals for very long on my own. at my centre i am not an "others-seeking" person--really i just want what's in it for me. I'm by definition selfish. and i can't assume this, but i get the feeling that most people are as well.
isn't that why previous attempts to build utopia haven't gone that well?
Pitcairn's Island, for example (Mutiny on the Bounty). granted, the originators were mutineers, but they were devoted to themselves and their island community, until there was a shortage of womenfolk and an introduction of alcohol.
Or the Communist attempts. Communism (in definition) is entirely community minded--"from each according to his ability to each according to his need" (Marx). I'm generalizing, but the main reason the different communist revolutions became communist regimes--and usually oppressive ones--is because, however strong their resolve, they ignored the basic self-seeking nature of humanity: given time and difficulty, it becomes all about me. In "Enemy at the Gates" the Political Officer says that "there will always be something to envy...[ppl] rich in talents, poor in talents, rich in love, poor in love..."
i don't think humanity can retain its nature and exist in a community-minded Mayberry setting for very long w/o destroying it. remember the first matrix? "it was a perfect world which your primitive minds kept trying to wake up from."
but i'm young. perhaps i have more to learn?
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sheronjessie 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 11:11 PM
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marius I don't know how old you are but the fact that you are using movies to illistrate your point says a lot about you. I think you need a little more reallity shows in your life. Life is't anything like the movies we see and makes it hard to know how people really feel. We need to take a look at the way we treat others, and live our lives accordingly.
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Elspeth 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (sheronjessie @ Nov 3 2003, 10:24 PM)
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.

What you say is true for some and is a place where changes can be made. If all have enough to survive then, none will have to steal. There is certianly work there for us to do.

But, there are those as well who do have enough, but just want more. Or they are filled with a rage they cannot name and want to hurt, or they are just plain bored and looking for 'kicks'. These are the crimes that are hard to know how to counter.

3Ravens, I agree wholheartedly with you, that the answer seems to lie in community. I think that is why I chose Mayberry for the analogy in the first place. But, we have community here. The home that was burgurlized and fired was watched over by many. I think that is why recent events have hit me so hard. Ugliness came into our community and defiled it. And it isn't good enough to me to shrug shoulders and say, 'it happens'. There has to be more. I just cannot accept this as the norm.


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Keltic 
Posted: 03-Nov-2003, 11:42 PM
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QUOTE (sheronjessie @ Nov 3 2003, 11:24 PM)
hi, this is tennesseegirl
I was just reading some of the comments on the subject of Mayberry. I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view, but did you ever wonder why people are out there commiting these crimes in the first place.
I never have commited any of these crimes but the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one. We here in the United States send money to other countries to help there starving children and families, also to take care of there medical needs and let our own families and children starve here. We back these people into a corner and give them no chose but to rob, steal, and even hurt others out of desperation. I hate to hear when someone ends up being hurt, or crime as found it's way to them, but we have to want to change things in our own yards before we can expect to have the Mayberry we all want so much.

I have to take exception to your justification in why these crimes are being committed. I should not have to accept the fact that someone broke into my home and stole the television set that I was still paying off. Don't expect me to pat him on the back and tell him that I understand. I have worked for everything that I have and nobody has the right to just walk right up and take it. The choice to commit a crime is just that... a choice!!! It is about time that people are held responsible for their actions and we stop making excuses for them.


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marius 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 12:02 AM
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QUOTE
marius I don't know how old you are but the fact that you are using movies to illistrate your point says a lot about you. I think you need a little more reallity shows in your life. Life is't anything like the movies we see and makes it hard to know how people really feel. We need to take a look at the way we treat others, and live our lives accordingly.


cheers sheronjessie--i didn't realize i was doing that--movies come easier to mind i guess. sorry bout that. ohmy.gif
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McHaggis 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 12:44 AM
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I've, too, liven by choice in a lot of small "Mayberry-like" towns for the last 20 or so years. There's sure a lot more drunks than Otis in them, Sherrif Andy was a political hack and usually the high school bully likely as not, and there was a lot of domestic violence, a lot of vandalism and out and out thievery, even the occasional murder and weird stuff you don't even wanna know about....but there's a lot of good folks, too. Small towns are just like big urban towns but with less population.

As I said in an earlier post, what ya gotta do is reward proper and decent behavior as you yourself define it and watch your back against the bad guys.

Target-rich environment was a good way to describe how the bad guys see the rurals, that's for sure. Even Aunt Bea probably had some stuff in her closet she wasn't really too proud of.

Still and all, I like small towns (the smallest I lived in had less than 800 people in it...when everybody was home! And there were good people and bad people!)

Sorry, Mayberry is just a myth. Probably always was and always will be. But don't let that stop you from going out to the town square on a summer night to have a soda and buy the kids an ice cream and listen to the brass band over at the gazebo. It exists....I've been there. And didn't even have to lock my car or roll up the windows......just lucky I guess.

RON


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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 01:34 AM
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Swanny 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 02:20 AM
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QUOTE
the way the world is now it's no wonder that people are so despert to rob, and steal. We are not paid enough wages to take care of our families, we cann't afford healthcare for them either. The people who are out there stealing food, clothing, and other things are trying to cope with the fact that they are having to live on the streets, or live in there cars if they are fortunate to own one.


With all due respect, Tennesseegirl, if that were true all we'd have to do is throw more money at the problem and it would go away. The fact of the matter is that for every poor person who shoplifts there are many more who don't, for every poor person who commits a robbery, rape, assault or murder there are hundreds who don't.

Honesty is not just a blue-collar concept and dishonesty is not confined to the "poor downtrodden souls". I have known very wealthy people to commit heinous crimes and I know desparately poor who would never dream of taking something they hadn't earned, not even welfare payments nor commodity foodstuffs.

I don't want to come across too harshly here, but I am offended by your statement
QUOTE
"I know all of you are looking at this from a blue collar workers point of view."
. Please don't make assumptions about my perspective. You don't know me nearly well enough to know where I'm coming from and though it's only a guess, I'd guess that you don't honestly know the backgrounds of others posting in this thread either.

I haven't always enjoyed the comforts I am blessed with today. I've lived on streets and in cars and under bridges and I stayed stone cold sober and never stole a dime nor hurt a living person the entire time. My mother raised three children on a 1960s secretaries salary in a backwards little cow-town long before AFDC, foodstamps or medicaid existed and she nonetheless set the example to teach each of us to live honest, honorable lives, to live within our means and to share what little we had with others. Yes ma'am, I DO claim offense.

Honor, respect and community aren't restricted to the wealthy and they are not prohibited to the poor.

Swanny


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andylucy 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (Swanny @ Nov 4 2003, 01:20 AM)



I haven't always enjoyed the comforts I am blessed with today.  I've lived on streets and in cars and under bridges and I stayed stone cold sober and never stole a dime nor hurt a living person the entire time.  My mother raised three children on a 1960s secretaries salary in a backwards little cow-town long before AFDC, foodstamps or medicaid existed and she nonetheless set the example to teach each of us to live honest, honorable lives, to live within our means and to share what little we had with others. 



Huzzah, Swanny!

I can't always claim to have remained sober, but the binges were few and far between rolleyes.gif .

My father died when I was 9 years old, and my mother worked two jobs to make sure my brother and I had the necessities. She taught us to stand proud and to be honorable men. Yes, we were poor as proverbial church-mice, but we never even thought about stealing. If you wanted something, you got a bloody job shovelling $@&# until you earned the money to get it. I went to college, and never took out a student loan. I busted my hump, got scholarships and worked 40+ hours a week in a factory to do it.

I am sorry, but there is no excuse for being a dishonest human being. Honor is what seperates mankind from the lower life forms. Honor, and the ability to appreciate a good single malt Scotch or draught Guinness. wink.gif beer_mug.gif

Just my tuppence.

Andy


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Elspeth 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 09:06 AM
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All true, and yet.....

No, throwing money at the problem won't make it go away. And it is never right to steal.

But there are those who work hard and still can't make ends meet. Perhaps that is a place where creativity can be corralled. Gov't can't figure out a solution. Maybe we 'Mayberry wannabes' can come up with some better ideas.

Funny how we got into the groove of stealing....

I'm quoting Swanny now, "The fact of the matter is that for every poor person who shoplifts there are many more who don't, for every poor person who commits a robbery, rape, assault or murder there are hundreds who don't."

That is my point. The vast majority of us don't live like this. Why is it that it seems we are being controlled by those who do?

There is a quote I love.
"Pine woods are just are real as pigsties - and a darn sight pleasanter to be in"
- L M Montgomery


Everything beautiful and true is just as real as that which is ugly and evil. And good is stronger. The problem seems to be we are allowing the good to lie dormant while the evil runs rampant. I think apathy and laziness has gotten us where we are more that anything else.

Thoughts?
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McHaggis 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 12:59 PM
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Elspeth and I agree, again. I think it is mandatory to acknowledge behavior which benefits society. That old saw about for evil to win all that has to happen is for good people to do nothing. Apathy has many forms, one of which is taking good stuff for granted.

It always feels good to thank somebody for something nice they did for you: feels good to them, feels good to you. In your llife you can think of many examples, I am sure.

RON
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 04-Nov-2003, 01:12 PM
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In my little corner of "Mayberry". If someone is in need or is ill. We just pitch in and help that Person/Family out anyway we can. Sometimes it is just mowing their yard for them if they are unable to, help work on the House, plus countless number of small thing we do.

I believe it was Elspeth, who mentioned about the Front Porch attitude. Just about all of us has a Front porch in wich we sit and the neighbors who are out for their evening walks usually stop by just to chat. It makes it kind of nice.

So if people think that I am living in a Fairy Land, then so be it. And when the next Deputy swings through the town. I will just remember of this Fairly Land that I live in and just wave and smile.
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