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> Scottish Independence, Scotland leaving after 307 years
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Should Scotland leave England and become an independent nation?
Yes. [ 114 ]  [82.61%]
No. [ 24 ]  [17.39%]
Total Votes: 138
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chieftan 
Posted on 21-Apr-2014, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (CelticRadio @ 14-Apr-2014, 01:41 AM)
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Around 40 percent of Scots plan to vote for independence in this year's referendum, according to a poll on Thursday which showed a three-point rise in support for an end to the country's 307-year-old-union with England.

The poll, carried out by Panelbase, showed that 45 percent of those questioned intended to vote against Scottish independence, a decline of two points from the last equivalent survey.

Scotland, which has a population of just over 5 million and whose territorial waters are the source of much of the North Sea's oil and gas, will vote on September 18 on whether to leave the UK.

Do you think ending 307 years of Union between Scotland and England is the right thing to do? Will this result in a greater Scotland or perhaps result in economic disaster for both Scotland and the U.K? And finally, did Mel Gibson play a role in this independence plan with his 1995 movie "Braveheart"

Read more information about this independence movement here:

U.S. remains a wild card in Scottish independence vote

Take Independence, Take the oil & gas reserves that belong to Scotland. Sell 50% to the US, England, and Japan. Use the revenue to bolster our academics & technology to place
" Knowledge is power"


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chieftan 
Posted on 21-Apr-2014, 09:22 PM
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Vote yes for Scottish independence. Take the oil, Gas,& mineral leases & sell the rights to develop the wells for royalties to pay for tuition of promising students in the highly advanced schedules of aeronautical engineering, Geophysics, medical research, Ion Propulsion, Knowledge is power used in the correct fashion. The Yoke of English propaganda can be thrown off with great accomplishment, Enlightening the Scotsman who want to lead Scotland into a new and productive future.

Throw off the foreign influence. Knowledge is Power and beneficial to all.


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danthewightman 
Posted on 22-Apr-2014, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE (Felurian @ 19-Apr-2014, 08:47 AM)
Imperialism by any other name smells just as rank.

What's the true difference between Russian, English, German or American imperialism - or any other nation's? Why should one nation be subject to another? One people to another?

"Why should one nation be subject to another? One people to another?"

Because , some egalitarian - nihilist don't believe in "equality" that all are equal in their
station and standing on the land and by the creator, and thus believe they are above others , by dogma belief of divine right via pedigree, OR , because Might makes right, till someone mightier comes along. One of the oldies codes is "The Mighty shall not oppress the week" .. Thus the week will 'organize' themselves and shall eventually, "... when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

That's why.
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MacFive 
Posted on 22-Apr-2014, 03:17 PM
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My main worry about splitting up the Union would probably be Militarily. What does this mean? And will America step in and put the brakes on this as some articles have suggested.

I think there is an advantage that the former commonwealths of Canada, Australia, New Zealand, Ireland and Scotland remain in close coordination. With the events of the world recently there is an advantage of these Allies remaining together in somesort of working framework.

While independence of Scotland sounds like a good idea, is it possible that it will result in diminished world roles for both Scotland and the U.K. Would it be better to find an alternative solution or is the writing already on the wall?
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Siorai1922 
Posted on 22-Apr-2014, 04:47 PM
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I spent the better part of the last decade in Scotland and, whilst my American opinion doesn't really count for much, I think Scotland should regain its independence. Their natural resources (e.g., North Sea crude) are exploited and of the taxes paid by the Scots, very little goes to the Scottish government; most of it stays in London's Exchequer.

The Scottish Pound no longer holds the value that it once did: British Pound exchanges at a higher rate than the Scottish - although buying either one costs consumers the same amount. This move to devalue the Scottish Pound is, in my opinion, a move on the part of London to discourage the Scots from printing their own money.

The subtext is a snub and a subtle reminder of who's "boss."

There will definitely be repercussions on both sides of the border, there's no denying that. However, if both sides will "play nice," the outcome will be a benefit to all concerned - particularly the Scots.
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JACOBITE 
Posted on 23-Apr-2014, 12:38 AM
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As far as military goes Scotland has seen its share of the defence budget cut. We have had air fields shut and army numbers cut. The Russian navy has twice sent ships into Scottish waters in recent years and it has been up to fishing boats and the Norwegian navy to keep an eye on them as there are no naval surface ships in Scotland.
Scotland has no wish to try and claim to be a major player in the world.Our role will be like Norway or Denmark ,quietly efficent.
Scotland currently has no world role. Many people across the world do not even know we exist. To many we are English. I'm not claiming we are going to burst on the world stage and take it by storm but we will finally have a place at the UN and the EU we'll even be allowed our own Olympic team.
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camac 
Posted on 23-Apr-2014, 02:42 PM
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I read in the papers all this talk about Scottish Independence and other members going on about how the Scots should be free. Reminds me of the Separatists here in Canada. The province of Quebec keeps electing the PQ into [power every few years and we go through threats of referendum. It's getting to the point where the rest of Canada is sick and tired of it . Even when the PQ manages to hold a referendum they get beaten but it doesn't stop them from trying and trying and trying ad nauseum. One of theses days the R.O.C. is going to say leave and don't let the screen door slap you in the ass on the way out. thumbs_up.gif thumbs_up.gif thumbs_up.gif


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Shadows 
Posted on 23-Apr-2014, 04:14 PM
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They do have the right to request that as does Scotland!
If folks are feed up with the way the governmemt is treating them then go for it.
Look at what is happening in other parts of the world right now but that is a different topic, this is about Scotland..


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BryanMPyke 
Posted on 23-Apr-2014, 08:35 PM
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While Scotland should be sovereign unto itself, we are all interdependent. So, Yes, to the Vote and a reminder that no (hu)man is an island unto themselves.
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MacFive 
Posted on 27-Apr-2014, 04:26 PM
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QUOTE (JACOBITE @ 23-Apr-2014, 12:38 AM)
As far as military goes Scotland has seen its share of the defence budget cut. We have had air fields shut and army numbers cut. The Russian navy has twice sent ships into Scottish waters in recent years and it has been up to fishing boats and the Norwegian navy to keep an eye on them as there are no naval surface ships in Scotland.
Scotland has no wish to try and claim to be a major player in the world.Our role will be like Norway or Denmark ,quietly efficent.
Scotland currently has no world role. Many people across the world do not even know we exist. To many we are English. I'm not claiming we are going to burst on the world stage and take it by storm but we will finally have a place at the UN and the EU we'll even be allowed our own Olympic team.

It truly is amazing how little is known about Scotland, but in how mighty they have shaped the world. True to the Scottish persona; sometimes it is the quiet people that sit back and listen that when they speak it has a great impact.

Unforunately with world events Europe may have to play a greater role militarily including Scotland. We are entering very dangereous times with the rising of China Nationalism, Russia Nationals and the former Turkish empire of Iran/Syria. And what about North Korea?

The Western Culture is under attack from all sides and as we say in the states, United we Stand, Divided we Fall....

The one thing that really bothers me about the drive for Scottish Independence is that it is being touted by Vladimir Putin himself and one must ask what his motives are for that which certainly can not be good...
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JACOBITE 
Posted on 02-May-2014, 04:47 AM
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Reb83 
Posted on 08-May-2014, 10:07 AM
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Ha.... the United States is notorious anti-secessionist! After all, it waged an entire war to keep the wealth of the South under its taxation thumb. It is very telling that the US has remained silent on this matter since, they are very good at trying to mind other people's business. However, the Scottish people must do what is in their best interest... though I think independence would reenforce their own unique culture.
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haynes9 
Posted on 13-Aug-2014, 03:16 PM
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Spoke with a Scotsman that works at a bank out here on the Navajo Rez. I asked what he thought about the independence vote.

He was not very encouraged. From his viewpoint, he would love to see it happen, but he feels like the fear of change will keep it from happening. He also feels, probably rightfully so, that if it does not happen now, it will not happen in his lifetime (and he is fairly young).

As an American, I know that in the great scheme of things that it is none of my business, but I do hope Scotland votes to break away. What that will mean for Northern Ireland in the future, I have no idea.


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haynes9 
Posted on 03-Sep-2014, 06:34 PM
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Looks like the "yes" vote is gaining ground on the "no" vote. This thing may go down to the wire.

It will be interesting to see how both sides approach the campaign during these last two weeks.
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apAidan 
Posted on 08-Sep-2014, 04:31 PM
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While I'm of Scots decent and am an American (several of my ancestors ended up in the Colonies via Ireland after the 45 in time for the Revolution), I think that this is a situation that has a great number of ramifications that people haven't really thought about.

I haven't read the referendum question, but does it only undo the union between the kingdoms or does it also sever the crowns? If if doesn't, then the Scots find themselves a independent country while sharing a monarch with the English. Queen Elizabeth II becomes Queen Elizabeth II / I much as James was King James II / VII. If you sever the crowns, who takes the throne? Which of the various Stuart claimants or do you do a worldwide dna search to find a descendant of one of the other royal houses? Or do you have yet another referendum and chuck out the monarchy altogether?

Does the newly independent Scotland become a nuclear power? Are they a member of the EU or do they have to apply for admittance? The same for NATO, though the relevance of that organization is becoming more in doubt as time goes on it's still a question that needs to be answered. Do they even want to be a part of either body?

What happens when Putin discovers seven Russian expats living in Dundee and he decides that Tayside needs to go the way of Crimea? Silly question, but what keeps an eternal squabbling between London and Edinburgh over various border districts as to which are Scots and which are English? Me, I'm worried about the President of Mexico claiming San Diego and Los Angeles if this Crimea precedent is accepted so it's probably something the Scots should worry about.

Speaking of who invades what, what parts of the UK military devolves to Scottish control? Which treaties that Scotland is currently a part of do they honor or do they follow in the steps of the old DDR and declare they don't have to honor any of them since 'they' didn't sign them. And this isn't just military treaties, but things like international copyright accords and the like.

And if Scotland bolts, is Wales far behind? Mercia? East Anglia? Do all seven of the kingdoms that coalesced into England make a break for it?

As someone of Scot decent, the concept of an independent Scotland is attractive and something good, but I don't believe anyone has addressed the other issues other than politicians saying 'we'll work that out after the vote'. Wouldn't it be better if people knew exactly what they were voting for before they did it? Or is this a matter of 'we have to vote for it to find out what's in it'?

Good luck and Godspeed to all of the Scots in the coming days as the day of the vote approaches
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