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> Are We By Nature Good Or Evil?
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Annabelle 
Posted: 19-Nov-2003, 11:09 PM
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I don't believe in RELIGION!

I believe in God, pure and simple...read the book..all of life's answer's are there if you will only open and read for yourself...how many of you that are commenting here have ever read the bible from front to back and understood what you read.
Not learning from a Priest or Rabbi or Minister thru church services, I mean break out the sweat and READ for yourself...
maybe we should all start there...think about it!

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Angel Whitefang (Rider) 
Posted: 20-Nov-2003, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Nov 18 2003, 08:38 PM)
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Please show respect and appreciation to alternative views posted here. We appreciate your consideration

That is what you normally say to me N\Maryellen. I would appreciate the same from you in return.
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Annabelle 
Posted: 20-Nov-2003, 04:46 PM
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Raven 
Posted: 20-Nov-2003, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Angel Whitefang (Rider) @ Nov 18 2003, 07:35 PM)
...if religion ...found out to be a big sham, what would happen?

The original question was a bit broader and to conditional---some of which beg answers that would have to be pure speculation smile.gif that's the trouble with what if's sometimes

I would do nothing different than I am now if religeon proved to be a sham.

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andylucy 
Posted: 20-Nov-2003, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 19 2003, 10:09 PM)
...how many of you that are commenting here have ever read the bible from front to back and understood what you read. 
Not learning from a Priest or Rabbi or Minister thru church services, I mean break out the sweat and READ for yourself...

Yep, I've read the bible from table of contents to concordance more times than I can count. Having been raised by a strict Southern Baptist mother, we had Bible drills every night- memorizing verses and such and then reading, sequentially, a chapter or two or three. Every night for 11 years. I've also read the Bible in several translations, and also bulled my way through the original Greek of the New Testament, thanks to a very patient Greek teacher and a lot of skull sweat. I never had the guts to try the Old Testament in Hebrew (something about languages that read right to left that locks my brain up biggrin.gif ). This was all before I converted to Catholicism. Since my conversion, I have read the Catholic Bible through a few more times, emphasizing the books not present in the Protestant version.

But, the original question- are we by nature good or evil?- People talk about the innate moral sense that we are born with. I feel that this is non-existent. I do not believe that humans are born with a moral sense, but develop one over the years, hopefully carefully inculcated by parents and reinforced by society. Otherwise, people seem to tend toward self-gratification, with no thought to the larger group. I see a lot of this in my wife's job as a Juvenile Officer. You don't see very many kids whose parents take an interest in their moral development getting locked up for anything other than having a visit from the "Pot Fairy." (Her term for that marijuana which mysteriously appears in the JV's pockets wink.gif ) Most of the adults im my police department lock-up have little or no moral sense. They do whatever feels good at the moment and to hell with the consequences and their effect on society. When we do get someone in there with a developed moral sense, you can tell because they act totally different from the run-of-the-mill scumbags who parade through.

Well, that is enough ranting for now. I think that I may be a bit jaded, given my line of work, so maybe my judgement isn't the fairest. I'll leave it up to the gentle-readers of this missive to decide.

Just my tuppence.

Andy


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Annabelle 
Posted: 20-Nov-2003, 05:04 PM
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I think Andy and Raven should come to the bar and join me for a round...both of you are using too many brain cells in here today...

Annabelle
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maryellen 
Posted: 21-Nov-2003, 08:12 PM
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I agree andylucy. Many studies also agree with you and came to the same conclusion: we are not born with an innate moral sense. Morals and values are taught. I tried searching for the study online and cannot seem to find it right now sad.gif
This also falls under the heading of pushing "Character Education" in schools. A kind of moral teacher-- which is another seperate debate altogether- should schools teach morals and values?


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Derfel 
Posted: 29-Nov-2003, 11:40 AM
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Nature don´t know "good or evil".
Is a wolf evil, because he killed a rabbit?
Or is a rabbit good because he don´t kill the wolf?

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Derfel 
Posted: 29-Nov-2003, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (Annabelle @ Nov 19 2003, 11:09 PM)
I don't believe in RELIGION!

I believe in God, pure and simple...read the book..all of life's answer's are there if you will only open and read for yourself...how many of you that are commenting here have ever read the bible from front to back and understood what you read.
Not learning from a Priest or Rabbi or Minister thru church services, I mean break out the sweat and READ for yourself...
maybe we should all start there...think about it!

A

Even the bible is not the one and only truth.
Is a book, not more and less, written by a lot of men and
censored by a lot of men.
Think about it!

Sláinte! beer_mug.gif

Derfel
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Raven 
Posted: 29-Nov-2003, 02:29 PM
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QUOTE (Derfel @ Nov 29 2003, 11:40 AM)

Or is a rabbit good because he don´t kill the wolf?

Sláinte beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Don't be silly D a rabbit can't kill a wolf ......unless he leads him over a cliff tongue.gif

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Keltic 
Posted: 29-Nov-2003, 02:35 PM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Nov 29 2003, 03:29 PM)

Don't be silly D a rabbit can't kill a wolf ......unless he leads him over a cliff tongue.gif

Yes it can. Have you not seen the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?


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Raven 
Posted: 30-Nov-2003, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (Keltic @ Nov 29 2003, 02:35 PM)
QUOTE (Raven @ Nov 29 2003, 03:29 PM)

Don't be silly D a rabbit can't kill a wolf ......unless he leads him over a cliff tongue.gif

Yes it can. Have you not seen the one in Monty Python and the Holy Grail?

Good point Keltic tongue.gif But you must remember,,,that rabbit was a particualrly viscious brute. (looks about nervously) Just the thought of that one gives me the willies unsure.gif I'd almost forgotten about him and was comfortable with rabbits until you brought it up.

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Derfel 
Posted: 30-Nov-2003, 07:33 PM
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QUOTE (Raven @ Nov 29 2003, 02:29 PM)
QUOTE (Derfel @ Nov 29 2003, 11:40 AM)

Or is a rabbit good because he don´t kill the wolf?

Sláinte  beer_mug.gif

Derfel

Don't be silly D a rabbit can't kill a wolf ......unless he leads him over a cliff tongue.gif

Peace

Mikel

I just don´t say that a rabbit cannot do this. wink.gif

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Derfel
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Raven 
Posted: 04-Dec-2003, 08:47 AM
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Another thought... If the wolf does not kill the rabbit is the wolf good or simply not hungry tongue.gif

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oldraven 
Posted: 04-Dec-2003, 10:00 AM
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A wolf will kill a rabbit just to kill it. All pack dogs would, unless they are trained not to kill. Built in Prey Drive. Just like a domestic pack dog can't help but chase a cat, even if it has no intention of eating it. They're designed to do it. Sort of like a really complex reflex.

Was this said already? Haven't been paying attention.


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