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> Voter Fraud, (R) Style!
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MDF3530 
Posted: 31-Jul-2012, 04:23 PM
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While Republicans trying to justify voter suppression bills continue to struggle to find any actual cases of voter fraud, once again a Republican politician may be the exception that proves the rule.

While voter fraud is exceedingly rare — a person is more likely to be hit by lightning than to commit it — then-Indiana Secretary of State Charlie White (R-IN) was convicted of it earlier this year. Now, a candidate for Pinal County Supervisor in Arizona has dropped out amid questions about who cast ballots on behalf of his long-deceased girlfriend.

The Arizona Republic reports:

A Pinal County supervisor candidate has withdrawn from the race in the wake of voter-fraud allegations involving a former companion who, records show, has continued to vote by absentee ballot in the five years since her death. John Enright, 66, had been seeking the Republican nomination for county supervisor of District 5, an area that includes Apache Junction and Gold Canyon. …

His statement made no mention of the scandal unleashed in an anonymous, undated letter sent several weeks ago to the Pinal County Recorder’s Office. As recently as this year, the letter alleged, someone had been filling out and mailing in absentee ballots addressed to a woman who died on Feb. 3, 2007. The woman, Sheila Nassar, and Enright lived together at the time of her death.

Enright has not been charged with any crime and told the Arizona press “I look forward to learning more about these allegations. If they are indeed formal allegations, I will defend myself. I very much look forward to clearing my name.”

But if Enright was indeed casting ballots in his late girlfriend’s name, he would be guilty of what the Pinal County Recorder called “an absolute act of fraudulent voting” — and a Class 6 felony.

Voter identification laws would have done nothing to prevent the sort of absentee ballot fraud alleged here. And the fact that this is already a felony shows that laws already on the books are clearly sufficient to punish this exceedingly rare crime.


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MDF3530 
Posted: 31-Jul-2012, 04:26 PM
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Patch 
Posted: 06-Aug-2012, 06:54 PM
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Actually, in 2010, we found a number of deceased individuals who voted. Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck and Minnie Mouse voted. Disenfranchised prisoners voted and many registrations came back to vacant lots. A voter ID even if provided at no charge by govt just makes it harder for this to happen. 35 years ago my company specialized in providing photo ID's for those dealing with state and federal govt.

A voter ID would keep me from casting your vote prior to an election were I inclined to do such a thing. Fortunately I and Most American citizens are not so inclined. Sadly some are not
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five4 
Posted: 16-Feb-2016, 11:14 AM
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So for all those that think that requiring a photo I.D. to vote because it is intrinsically discriminatory or that it disenfranchises voters by placing an undue burden upon them, let me list some of those privileges and activities that do so:

Purchase alcohol or cigarettes
Open a bank account
Apply for food stamps, welfare
Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security
a job or unemployment
building permits,
permits to hold a rally, protests or block parties
mortgages
hunting and fishing licenses
Rent an apartment, hotel room or car
Buy a house, a gun or a cell phone
nail polish and certain cold medicines
"M" rated video games or X-rated videos or DVD's
Purchase or pick up perscriptions
Drive buy or rent a car
Renew your driver's license
Enter a casino or Govt. building
Adopt a pet
Get on an airplane or cruise ship
Get married...


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FloridaCracker 
Posted: 30-Mar-2016, 04:01 AM
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Jon Oliver did a great piece on exactly why voter ID is completely unnecessary. It can be found on Youtube at: Jon Oliver on Voter ID/Fraud
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five4 
Posted: 30-Mar-2016, 10:12 AM
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First off let me state that the real issue is not so much voter fraud but election fraud and the ensuing deplorable actions of the polling system and electorial college. Now, let me get back to this thread...

Hummm, let me see...over 3 dozen items above which require a Photo I.D. to engage in, not one being voter registration...hummm. The Help America Vote Act of 2002 was put in place to add reforms and simplify registration and set national standards to some degree for voter registration. Adherence to the guidelines of HAVA is required if your state receives any Federal Aid...In addition, any state that requires a Photo I.D. is also required to furnish you with one for free if you can not afford it. If you believe that voter registration is an economic barrier, I see the argument as contritum amphora and here's why. Included in those above items are several that are challenged by economic disadvantages, welfare, Medicaid and unemployment, even social security, along with any number of assistance programs. Everyone in the United States that is not precluded by medical, mental, criminal or other such deficiencies as prescribed by law, has the right to vote as long as they meet two basic and one general criteria. You must be over 18 and you must be a US citizen. So pray tell me, how do you prove this without proper identification? Once you meet these basic requirements you must be legally registered to vote in your jurisdiction...To be able to satirize and otherwise discuss our government and it's policies is a novel and unique American pastime that is protected and guaranteed by our Constitution and it's accompanied amendments to the Bill of Rights...Try doing so in any number of other countries...

Do not fall into the trap of obtaining your pertinent information from comedians or amateurs, the internet makes it so easy to research information from any number of legitimate sources yourself. Mark Twain once said, "Those who don't read the paper are uninformed, those that do are misinformed." re: read several to get more information and opinion, remembering that the newspaper was the only media of the day. And Winston Churchill was quoted as saying, "The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter." just check out any of the "on the street" surveys. But my favorite quote concerning voting and politics is from Plato..."One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." as in, if the candidate that I like isn't running, then I'm not voting...suit yourself.

In closing I will say this...John Oliver is a comedian and he is exercising one of our rights as American citizens because the last time I checked, John Oliver is NOT a US citizen and no matter what his opinions are of our political system and voting requirements, he is NOT eligible to vote.
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FloridaCracker 
Posted: 30-Mar-2016, 11:28 AM
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Five4,
To begin with there are so many logical fallacies in your last post that its difficult to know where to begin. But I am up for the challenge. Let's look at your statement "John Oliver is a comedian". This statement is true, however, it is the informal fallacy "false attribution" due to the detail that John Oliver being a comedian is completely irrelevant to whether or not what he is saying is true. For example, in the case of South Carolina, it is fact that when the suspicious ballots were examined only a mere five ballots could not be accounted for. There wasn't even evidence that voter fraud took place in these five ballots, only that they couldn't be accounted for. So yes, the information that John Oliver provided to support the premise that voter fraud has no major impact on election outcome is true and verifiable.

Now let's examine your statement "Do not fall into the trap of obtaining your pertinent information from comedians or amateurs, the internet makes it so easy to research information from any number of legitimate sources yourself".
This is the logical fallacy known as an argumentum ad hominem. In other words you are attacking a personal attribute of mine. In this case, the attribute that you are attacking is what type of sources I use to obtain my pertinent information. In addition, the statement is completely false. I use a wide variety of credible sources to obtain pertinent information in order to form my opinions and reasoning. The mere fact, that I also enjoy a comedic twist that involves actual facts to a position, does not take away from other research that I conduct.

I could continue on with other statements that you made, but find its not worth my time. After all, I do take it very personally when someone resorts to sleazy tactics of using an argumentum ad hominem.
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Shadows 
Posted: 30-Mar-2016, 11:38 AM
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QUOTE (FloridaCracker @ 30-Mar-2016, 12:28 PM)
Five4,
To begin with there are so many logical fallacies in your last post that its difficult to know where to begin. But I am up for the challenge. Let's look at your statement "John Oliver is a comedian". This statement is true, however, it is the informal fallacy "false attribution" due to the detail that John Oliver being a comedian is completely irrelevant to whether or not what he is saying is true. For example, in the case of South Carolina, it is fact that when the suspicious ballots were examined only a mere five ballots could not be accounted for. There wasn't even evidence that voter fraud took place in these five ballots, only that they couldn't be accounted for. So yes, the information that John Oliver provided to support the premise that voter fraud has no major impact on election outcome is true and verifiable.

Now let's examine your statement "Do not fall into the trap of obtaining your pertinent information from comedians or amateurs, the internet makes it so easy to research information from any number of legitimate sources yourself".
This is the logical fallacy known as an argumentum ad hominem. In other words you are attacking a personal attribute of mine. In this case, the attribute that you are attacking is what type of sources I use to obtain my pertinent information. In addition, the statement is completely false. I use a wide variety of credible sources to obtain pertinent information in order to form my opinions and reasoning. The mere fact, that I also enjoy a comedic twist that involves actual facts to a position, does not take away from other research that I conduct.

I could continue on with other statements that you made, but find its not worth my time. After all, I do take it very personally when someone resorts to sleazy tactics of using an argumentum ad hominem.

That last line sound like anyone we all know?


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five4 
Posted: 30-Mar-2016, 01:38 PM
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Well, well, well, we have a debate...First off FloridaCracker, let say that this was not intended to be a personal attack on you or your veracity but a generalized statement on informational vehicles. And in no way did I say that John Oliver's information was incorrect. We are all stupefied by the polling and election issues highlighted by Florida, South Carolina and Illinois to say the least which accentuate fraudulent practices. My question to you sir, is this, With dozens of privileges requiring photo I.D. why are so many against voter I.D.? If anyone has partaken in any of these activities then they already have proper identification, which should suffice the voting requirements, unless that identification is not accurate or correct. This will become all too clear when anyone in Florida has to renew their driver's license... Being a fellow Floridian you must be a fine, upstanding person, we should get together and have a drink sometime and discuss the weather...What say you?

I think it was Frederick Douglas that said, " A gentleman will insult me and no man not a gentleman can insult me."

P.S. I too also enjoy a comedic twist to just about anything, especially politics. Lewis Black comes to mind here.
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