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> A Brief History Of Halloween, or a brief intoduction to Samhain
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maryellen 
Posted: 07-Oct-2003, 09:10 PM
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the Jewish New Year or the Chinese New Year do not celebrate through dressing up as evil things and think "it's cool."

These quoted websites are mostly Wiccan sources. They are not at all biased? Each side is going to have its own spin- interpreting history the way that that culture thinks it should be seen.


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Elspeth 
Posted: 07-Oct-2003, 10:42 PM
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Interesting how a holiday is what you make it.
End of the year celebration.... a time of a thin veil.... satanic holiday......harvest festival...... depends upon who is doing the defining.

My kids just want to dress up, carve pumpkins and get candy.

I, for one, have alway loved the slightly creepy feeling that just maybe the veil is thin on Halloween, making it a night not quite like any other....


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RavenWing 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 08:58 AM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Oct 8 2003, 03:10 AM)
the Jewish New Year or the Chinese New Year do not celebrate through dressing up as evil things and think "it's cool."

These quoted websites are mostly Wiccan sources. They are not at all biased? Each side is going to have its own spin- interpreting history the way that that culture thinks it should be seen.

Please visit http://www.religioustolerance.org it is by no means a wiccan source.

Educate yourself.


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maryellen 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 04:01 PM
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I went to the website- which is where you copied and pasted your post before. These are the sources listed here - not a general website which just conveys other people's information.

The data (and quotations) that backs up your claims were:
"Wiccan web site "Brightest Blessings" mentions..."
"Rowan Moonstone, a Wiccan, comments"
and more dictionaries, which are secondary sources not primary and subject to further interpretation.
And it goes on to question the opposing sides' sources, which are just as numerous and agree.
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Welsh Guy 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 04:20 PM
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If I may just quote from the post I made this time last year in the Wales forum.

"Nos Galan Gaeaf" which means "the Night of the Kalends (or beginning) of Winter", is the Welsh for Halloween, as opposed to "samhain" (The end of Summer) which is used in other parts of the Celtic world.

Nos Galan Gaeaf/samhain was the end of the summer and beginning of winter. At the change of seasons, the Celts believed that the spiritworld came closer. At Halloween in particular, the spirits of the dead and all sorts of other spirits were believed to be able to roam the world.

"Nos Galan Gaeaf"/"samhain" was hijacked by the christian church in the 7th century. and many of the old customs have died out, having been replaced by customs introduced by television and globalisation from America, however some of these American customs were originally taken to the New World by people of Celtic origin so you could say it has merely come full circle."


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barddas 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 04:28 PM
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THIS IS RIDICULOUS!!!!!!!!!!!
This is not an argument, or a discussion, it has turned into a well, I can prove this, and I can prove that. They are individual beliefs. Some have an acurate documented history, some don't.
This s topic was to discuss the beliefs and history of Halloween/Samhain.

Now it has become- Well prove it!

Cut it out!

Now I am on defensive-
Yes, some of the things that Ravenwing posted had been quoted by wiccans etc. But I have seen NO reference to *anything* you have stated! Everthing I personally have posted came from a un biased source. BBC, or Acheology web sites.

I don't mind discussion. I enjoy it! But, why are so many recently being harrassed?

This is a forum on paganism, and its practices. Why is christianity even being brought up, in this contridictory way? If there were a christian forum a certainly would not enter and be like" well My religion says BLAH, so yours is wrong, and blah, blah, blah.

Yes I said that a book you claimed 'Proves, what happend" is impossible. Yes, it is. It is only specultion. But know one has asked you to prove what you believe from a non christian source.

This is all I hope to say on this matter.






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Keltic 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 04:33 PM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Oct 7 2003, 06:44 PM)
A Twist of Fate by Berit Kjos

I didn't say anything about devil worshipping. I was discussing Halloween.

I have to say MaryEllen... I think that you should find a source that is more qualified in Celtic studies than Berit Kjos. After searching out his website and quickly reading some of his writings on symbolism, I have to say that it is obvious that his writings are self-serving and not researched.



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maryellen 
Posted: 08-Oct-2003, 04:42 PM
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point taken. if sources of information do not wish to be questioned for truthfulness there is nothing to discuss. I never said anything about Christianity either.
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barddas 
Posted: 09-Oct-2003, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (Welsh Guy @ Oct 8 2003, 06:20 PM)
If I may just quote from the post I made this time last year in the Wales forum.

"Nos Galan Gaeaf" which means "the Night of the Kalends (or beginning) of Winter", is the Welsh for Halloween, as opposed to "samhain" (The end of Summer) which is used in other parts of the Celtic world.

Nos Galan Gaeaf/samhain was the end of the summer and beginning of winter. At the change of seasons, the Celts believed that the spiritworld came closer. At Halloween in particular, the spirits of the dead and all sorts of other spirits were believed to be able to roam the world.

"Nos Galan Gaeaf"/"samhain" was hijacked by the christian church in the 7th century. and many of the old customs have died out, having been replaced by customs introduced by television and globalisation from America, however some of these American customs were originally taken to the New World by people of Celtic origin so you could say it has merely come full circle."

Good Point WG! I don't know how I missed this post earlier... OOpps
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gaberlunzie 
Posted: 09-Oct-2003, 02:53 PM
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[QUOTE=barddas,Oct 8 2003, 05:28 PM]
I don't mind discussion. I enjoy it! But, why are so many recently being harrassed?

This is a forum on paganism, and its practices. Why is christianity even being brought up, in this contridictory way? [QUOTE]

This is the question...
May I just give my two cents to this discussion: I would like to post so much, there is so much one could add to the topic "Samhain" - but to read again and again in which manner "discussion" is practised by some posters here just makes me feel sick.
Where is your tolerance? Where is your respect? Why do you need questioning other beliefs? Why isn't it possible to lead an unbiased discussion? Aren't we all really old enough to keep some basic rules?
The same problem can be found in the discussion of other topics on this forum, too. Same intolerance, same arrogance of very, very few or sometimes even single persons.
This is not meant as any sort of offense - I'm just awfully sad about all this and I would be glad to rediscover the friendly, tolerant and open-minded way of communication which you had always been able to find here before!



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Elspeth 
Posted: 09-Oct-2003, 03:55 PM
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Getting back to the topic..... wink.gif

What do people do to celebrate samhain today? Is it still observed as an end of summer celebration?

If this was already answered forgive the repetetive question, it got lost somewhere.....
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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 05-Nov-2003, 02:43 AM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Oct 8 2003, 04:42 PM)
point taken. if sources of information do not wish to be questioned for truthfulness there is nothing to discuss. I never said anything about Christianity either.

As others we're trying to get across to you...its not a matter of truthfulness....its a matter of "this is what my religion says so you have to believe it"
Everyone has they're own opinion and they are intitled to it, but when you start forcing someone into believing yours as the "truth" thats when we have a problem.
Also when you quote someone that states a holiday mainly celebrated (for its original meaning) by pagans is evil, in a pagan forum no less, you should be prepared for tempers to rise.


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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 05-Nov-2003, 02:46 AM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Oct 9 2003, 03:55 PM)
Getting back to the topic..... wink.gif

What do people do to celebrate samhain today? Is it still observed as an end of summer celebration?

If this was already answered forgive the repetetive question, it got lost somewhere.....

For myself yes it is. We have a huge feast and invite all our friends (pagan and non-pagan) to join us. After the feast and a few glasses of wine tongue.gif those that are pagan either stay for the circle or go to do their own.
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maryellen 
Posted: 08-Nov-2003, 09:50 PM
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I would incline that religion is the search for truthfulness and are basically one in the same.
If you have discovered I went to someone's house, put a gun to their head and said "believe this or I kill you," then I will be the first to report it.
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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 11-Nov-2003, 01:45 AM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Nov 8 2003, 09:50 PM)
I would incline that religion is the search for truthfulness and are basically one in the same.
If you have discovered I went to someone's house, put a gun to their head and said "believe this or I kill you," then I will be the first to report it.

You don't have to hold a gun to some ones head in order to try and force them to believe in your religion. All you have to do is beat them about the head and shoulders with your bible. (no offense to my Christian friends)

And no offense to you either Maryellen, but you sound like my grandmother. Its cool that you join in on pagan topics and voice your opinions, but please remember some things you are or might be saying is not something we as pagans believe. And more than likely just because you say its so doesn't always mean its right.

Again I'm not trying to offend anyone with my posts I'm just tired of having to defend my religion to people that aren't really listening anyways.
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