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> Wiccans: Evil Or Not, Why do people think witches are evil?
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oldraven 
Posted: 25-Oct-2003, 10:43 PM
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Yes, I know. Paganism isn't new, not by a long shot. There were many earth based religions in play in what is now known as the UK before Christ was born. But that is not Wicca in particular. It's just a modern look at an old belief.


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RavenWing 
Posted: 27-Oct-2003, 10:22 AM
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unfirtunately, there aree a lot of people out there that like to believe that Wicca is thousands of years old..but it isn't. rolleyes.gif


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bhalilama 
  Posted: 27-Oct-2003, 11:15 AM
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O.K. here goes....This is not in reply to anyone's post specifically. It's just my 2 cents worth. angel_not.gif The original question was why does the modern socitey call WICCA evil,right? We have an inheirent need to label anything and everyone,then align ourselves with a certian group. As you all have said,sometimes the group we are a "part" of doesn't really have a complete correlation to what we belive ,yet we feel secure if not "right" being in this group. This is mostly due to the enviornment we are born into,ie.family,part of the world, etc. It's what we "know". It's what we have been shown or taught or witnessed. As we get into our teen years,more or less, we have a tendency to rebel against this environment. We have to start finding the "answers" for ourselves.For some this is a validation of the teachings we have had:for some it is a move to the complete oppisite:and for some it is a lifelong pursuit .unfortunely, when we "get settled" we tend to believe that we are smarter,more devout and more "right" than anyone has ever been in the history of forever. That's where " bad"."wrong",and "evil" labels start getting applied.

Here's hoping ya'll get to live a life that you enjoy regardless of labels!!! biggrin.gif
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Celeste of the Stars 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 07:10 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ Oct 4 2003, 12:16 AM)
That is very true Bardass!!!
A good example is the pesicusion and killing of "witches" in Salem and England in the 16th century!


unfortunately we are still be persecuted today. There are actually modern day "witch hunters" they actually kill people who claim to be witches. They are called the Triads.
unfortunately some witches can be evil. Then again there are some like myself who are healers.


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McHaggis 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 07:49 PM
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And here would be the perfect time to point out a translation problem in the King James version of The Bible. The injunction that people quote a lot : "Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live," is not entirely correct. The oldest translations suggest that passage was meant to read "Thou shalt not suffer a necromancer to live." Something entirely different....and if I was that Jonathan Edwards guy on "Crossing Over" I'd be watching my back.

My dealings with Wiccans has been just fine, thank you, even the one I was dating back on the farm; I may disagree on ritual here and there, but I disagree on most ritual in most religions...I'm just iconoclastic that way. I have a great respect for the herbalisitic nature of the old religions, scientifically not exactly correct all the time, but certainly on the right track.

And I am in accord with the statement that modern Wiccan beliefs are a modern look at a much older religion..as it appears there is very little if any historical documentation that has survived concerning practices of the Earth religions.if we discount oral tradition, that is.

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Celeste of the Stars 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 08:15 PM
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QUOTE (McHaggis @ Oct 31 2003, 07:49 PM)
.


And I am in accord with the statement that modern Wiccan beliefs are a modern look at a much older religion..as it appears there is very little if any historical documentation that has survived concerning practices of the Earth religions.if we discount oral tradition, that is.

RON

Some would tend to disagree with you not to say that you are wrong though. I am a solitary witch that practices healing. Many of my rituals and beliefs are very much in accordance with the "old ways" and I have done all of my studies from books both new and old.
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oldraven 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 10:16 PM
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QUOTE (Celeste of the Stars @ Oct 31 2003, 08:15 PM)
Some would tend to disagree with you not to say that you are wrong though. I am a solitary witch that practices healing. Many of my rituals and beliefs are very much in accordance with the "old ways" and I have done all of my studies from books both new and old.

Then why wouldn't you claim to be a Pagan Healer, rather than a Wiccan? It's more accurate, is it not?
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Celeste of the Stars 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 10:42 PM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ Oct 31 2003, 10:16 PM)
Then why wouldn't you claim to be a Pagan Healer, rather than a Wiccan? It's more accurate, is it not?

Yes and no. Not all pagans are wiccans. I call myself a Wiccan healer to be more accurate(I think thats the word I'm looking for)
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oldraven 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 11:05 PM
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I realise that. I'm saying that Wiccan is not really that old of a religion, and is a Pagan religion. I'm wondering if you asociate more with the anchient pagan religions, or the modern (Wicca)?
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Celeste of the Stars 
Posted: 31-Oct-2003, 11:09 PM
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QUOTE (oldraven @ Oct 31 2003, 11:05 PM)
I realise that. I'm saying that Wiccan is not really that old of a religion, and is a Pagan religion. I'm wondering if you asociate more with the anchient pagan religions, or the modern (Wicca)?

Wicca is an older religion than most people think. Yes it is a newer version, but most still follow the old ways. Its a new name for an old face biggrin.gif
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McHaggis 
Posted: 01-Nov-2003, 12:45 AM
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Now I'm REALLY curious.....how old are the books you use? Can you name me a couple. I'm asking as a student of religions. So please enlighten and educate me.

RON
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Dreamer1 
Posted: 01-Nov-2003, 11:23 AM
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McHaggis,

You may want to start by reading "Drawing Down The Moon" by Margot Adler. I've also read "Green Withcraft" and "Green Witchcraft II" by Aoumiel (sp?), "The Encyclopedia of Magical Herbs" by Scott Cunningham, and now am in the middle of "Wicca, a Guide For The Solitary Practitioner" by Scott C. I've heard lots of people recommend "The Spiral Dance" by Starhawk (I think), though I haven't read it yet. These are just beginnings, mind you. But it's a start towards better understanding.

Any other recommendations, anyone? I know there was another thread along these lines, too. Can we expand it?

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Dreamer1 
Posted: 01-Nov-2003, 11:29 AM
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OK, I should have checked the rest of this forum. There's a complete Book Recommendations section! (blushing furiously, feeling foolish) oops.gif

Sorry all.

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McHaggis 
Posted: 01-Nov-2003, 01:29 PM
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Thanks, Dreamer.....I'm familiar with most of these through my old Wicca girlfriend, who, incidently, claimed she knew both Starhawk and Z Budapest.

Of course you are familiar with The Maleus Malafacarium (pardon my spelling) aka The Hammer Of Witches, the German manual for witchfinders back in the 1500s.

It is an amazing look at what the Catholic mindset was in those days during the purge. I'm, of course, not suggesting that it represents anything even CLOSE to my views...in fact I'm 180 degrees in the opposite direction...but it is still an enlightening historical document into a set of beliefs during those times....as is Wonders Of The Invisible World by Cotton (or was it Increase?) Mather around the times of the Salem Trials, both of which I read during my college days as part of a research project.

RON
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Celeste of the Stars1 
Posted: 02-Nov-2003, 04:18 PM
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QUOTE (McHaggis @ Nov 1 2003, 12:45 AM)
Now I'm REALLY curious.....how old are the books you use? Can you name me a couple. I'm asking as a student of religions. So please enlighten and educate me.

RON

My 2x greatgrand mothers book of shadows and diary


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