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> Wiccans: Evil Or Not, Why do people think witches are evil?
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Shadows 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (barddas @ Oct 6 2003, 03:08 PM)
QUOTE (Shadows @ Oct 4 2003, 02:16 AM)
That is very true Bardass!!!
A good example is the pesicusion and killing of "witches" in Salem and England in the 16th century!

Most of the folks "punished" were god fearing christians that either were ecentric or had angered some folks in the community! Those that practiced the "arts" did so in private, and most never were found out!

We are not an evil people, we are loving to all creation. We believe that what ever we do has an effect on the world and our lives, if we do evil it is returned to us 3 fold, we do good it is the same. So why should we wish harm on ourselves, we strive for good...

Interesting fact about the whole Salem thing. It has come to scientific conclusion that the mass hysteria in Salem, Mass was brought about by a fungus that grew on the wheat that was then used as food ie breads and so on. This particular fungi when consumed causes an LSD effect. The scientist have smaples of grain from the 2 sides of salem. One side was effected with the Fungi, the other not. If memory serves me correctly. I will try and find the report on this and post it else where. I thought you would find it interesting shadows!

Yes I have seen that report, but the problem was happening in Europe at the same time! Was it from imported grain from the colonies, or did that fungus just happen in many places at once. The fungus is still amungus on rye that is not properly stored, but I do not see hangings, burnings nor drownings of witches today... long live Timothy Leary!

Thanks for the info !


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barddas 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 03:20 PM
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QUOTE (Shadows @ Oct 6 2003, 04:46 PM)
QUOTE (barddas @ Oct 6 2003, 03:08 PM)
QUOTE (Shadows @ Oct 4 2003, 02:16 AM)
That is very true Bardass!!!
A good example is the pesicusion and killing of "witches" in Salem and England in the 16th century!

Most of the folks "punished" were god fearing christians that either were ecentric or had angered some folks in the community! Those that practiced the "arts" did so in private, and most never were found out!

We are not an evil people, we are loving to all creation. We believe that what ever we do has an effect on the world and our lives, if we do evil it is returned to us 3 fold, we do good it is the same. So why should we wish harm on ourselves, we strive for good...

Interesting fact about the whole Salem thing. It has come to scientific conclusion that the mass hysteria in Salem, Mass was brought about by a fungus that grew on the wheat that was then used as food ie breads and so on. This particular fungi when consumed causes an LSD effect. The scientist have smaples of grain from the 2 sides of salem. One side was effected with the Fungi, the other not. If memory serves me correctly. I will try and find the report on this and post it else where. I thought you would find it interesting shadows!

Yes I have seen that report, but the problem was happening in Europe at the same time! Was it from imported grain from the colonies, or did that fungus just happen in many places at once. The fungus is still amungus on rye that is not properly stored, but I do not see hangings, burnings nor drownings of witches today... long live Timothy Leary!

Thanks for the info !

go to the interview link, in the salem topic. It branches on the Europe thing a bit.

wink.gif


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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 03:44 PM
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Well for one, I do not believe that Wiccans are evil. From my understanding, the Wiccans were healers.

Doctors today are afraid of Wiccans only for the fact that they do not understand herbal medicines.

Anyway, what better way to get rid of a person who disagreed with your ideas. If you did not like them, just accuse them as a witch and then they are history.

Of all the cemeteries I have stomped doing geneology. I have only seen one grave where the person was accused of witchcraft. And her Tombstone was set upside down.


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Shadows 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 04:06 PM
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Wicca is more then herbs and crystals! It is a reverance for all life no matter how great or small! It is the belief that what ever you do effects everything around you and how everything around you effects you! Herbs heal, they are the basis of most modern medicines (spel), but not the basis of Wicca. It is more so how strongely you believe and the ability to transpose those beliefs into positive energy. Meditaion, going to alter, and knowing yourself are the only requirements and limitations you will encounter. Believe in life in all things and thank that which contributes to the success of your life and you can not go wrong!
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 04:39 PM
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Thank you Shadows, I stand corrected.

I have always thought that was the way anyhow. That is how I was raised.

That is why I usually put at the end of my posts, "May you walk in balance with Creator."
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Shadows 
Posted: 06-Oct-2003, 04:49 PM
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QUOTE (Richard Bercot @ Oct 6 2003, 05:39 PM)
Thank you Shadows, I stand corrected.

I have always thought that was the way anyhow. That is how I was raised.

That is why I usually put at the end of my posts, "May you walk in balance with Creator."

Your beliefs are yours, mine should not effect yours! It seems you believe in the grand master of creation and that you play a role in the master plan for the universe. Never appologize for what you believe! I was not trying to correct you, just explain. The beliefs of one are between that person and their god/gods and should never be questioned by others!
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Swanny 
Posted: 07-Oct-2003, 02:54 AM
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One's religion does not make one either good nor evil. That is determined by one's behavior.

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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 07-Oct-2003, 12:15 PM
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Shadows, I did not think I was apologizing of or for my Religion even though it is not a Religion but more of a belief. I was apologizing for my misconception of Wicca.

I personally feel that a persons belief is their own. And no person should tell another how they are to believe. The only thing that will change my belief is by Creator alone.

May you walk in balance with Creator.
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Annabelle 
Posted: 09-Oct-2003, 11:24 PM
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I admit I don't know enough about the Wicca to place an opinion...I was at Stonehendge last December for the Winter Soltis (sp) They had a ceremony that seemed complicated but beautiful...it appeared to be honoring earth.
some things are so differnet it scares others...so don't take it personally..we aren't educated enough about it. The ceremony seemed to be directed into honoring earth and an supreme being...sounds like God to me.
If you look at all religion's they all have different names or identifyers but they point to one higher up...
Go figure!
I just want to be happy and enjoy every day as if it were my last!
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Boudica123 
Posted: 21-Oct-2003, 07:54 PM
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I actually did a project on this... kinda... it was about how the salem witch trials and other witch trials never were publicly settled and because of that people believe wiccans worship satan or look like green faced goblins. Although I do believe in evil witches and good witches. It's a religion.. in a way... well that's just my opinion though


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McHaggis 
Posted: 22-Oct-2003, 11:58 AM
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From personal experiences, I've never met an "evil" Wiccan. My girlfriend wasn't, her friends weren't. The worst thing I could accuse some of them was the generic throwing out of the baby with the bathwater in their dislike of more fundamental Christians, but I guess that sword cuts both ways. I think some folks become Wiccan or other pagans in order to express their personal "individuality" and be something "different" than what they see as the 'mainstream' of American (in this case) religion or culture in general. A sort of protest against politics and the status quo as well as just the religious aspect. Not all, just "some."

Ah well, to each their own.

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Aaediwen 
Posted: 22-Oct-2003, 03:31 PM
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I began my research into Wicca because I wanted to know what was so "evil" about it. What was so bad about it?
What I found is a hidden purity and truth that I can believe in. This gets into one of my pet peeves with old Rome, and although It does me no good to be ticked at someone who is long dead, let me get on my soapbox here

/rant on

Old Rome was a society of politics and conquest. They were committing acts of oppression in the name of their own deities for years before they converted to Christianity (look at Christ himself). Into this environment, comes an upstart group lead by someone preaching the truth, someone who has everything figured out at least to some degree. His followers think him God incarnate.

OK, fast forward over the part of history where Rome persecutes Christians as relentlessly as anyone else they don't like, to the conversion of Rome and an environment where we now have the Roman Catholic church, gone are the days of many Gods and Goddesses, but the bloodlust remains. "Hey! let's continue conquest in the name of spreading our way of thought; Spread the word of Christ and expand the empire while we're at it"

Everything up to this, I don't really have any problem with. I think they're hypocrites for using the teachings of Christ to justify bloody conquest, but they aren't the last. it's still going to happen, and for actually succeeding, ok; to the winner go the spoils. sure. I can live with that. Next comes my main gripe.

ok, Rome now controls xyz land, they've beaten the foe, yay for them. now, the people who have been living here for hundreds of years have their own beliefs and way of life, well that's not the *Roman* way, we can't have that nooo.... Everything that's not the Roman way of life, and anything that's not (Roman) "Christian" must be of Satan, inherently evil, and corrupt. hence it must be gotten rid of, and outlawed. anyone practicing it must either be converted or killed. Either conform and give up everything you are or die. This is how you exterminate cultures, my friends, this is how you commit Genocide! They're going to kill anyone who won't become Roman, and doing it in the name of a man who taught kindness and love. Not only are they wiping out cultures, they're corrupting their religon as well. "But Christ didn't teach that." "Ohh well, people don't know that. we'll say he did and that's how we'll teach it."

Then, of course, by the fall of Rome, the damage was done. the Roman Catholic church was the most powerful organization in the world and everyone there had been taught and was teaching all the *Roman* changes. I'd say that by then only a few members of the clergy might have realized that it was impure, but would be afraid to say anything if they were aware of it, surely it would have ment death.

Then you end up with poor souls like St. Patrick, who although I'd say he was a pure soul, living by Christ's word as best he knew how, spreading and teaching the word. He would have been taught from infancy a Christianity tainted by the bloodlust of an old Rome. He would have only known a Christianity that said anything that wasn't Christian (wasn't Roman, but Rome is no longer the power it was) was the Devil's work. How is he to know any different?

This has been quietly passed down since then, and I'd say most of the people passing it down don't even think about the fact that their messiah might have taught completely different from what they are teaching. One of these elements being the notion that anything that is not Christian is the devil's work, Wicca and Druidism included. However.

/rant off

However, Rome's Genocide was not a complete success, and the Pagan ways and religon still live on. And in my studies of them, seeking the truth, I have found 2 kinds. Either pure people, with a better heart than most avid Christians or people who only got into it because of the spells and magick and don't really care for the core meaning of the religon itself. Now, I'm sure that there are some dark Witches in the world, I just haven't found any true Witches who do not carry a good heart. Contrast that with the Christian world and I almost believe I haven't seen enough. Of course my studies still continue, and I feel that the best route for me now would be to hang out with a coven, but I just don't know of any. I know some pagans, and some witches, but no groves or covens at the current time.

I think I have found the answer I originally sought though. "What is so evil about the pagan religons? What is witchcraft really, and what is so evil about it?"
Answer: "nothing inherantly evil about it. Everything has the potential for good or bad, but the only good or bad is in the heart of the Witch. Ever mind the rule of three. Let the natural world tend to itself, and what you put forth to others will find its way back to you."

Kindness and well being to all

God bless you all
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 22-Oct-2003, 07:36 PM
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Aaediwen,

Well said, Aaediwen, well said!
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oldraven 
Posted: 25-Oct-2003, 05:39 PM
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Sorry if this has been said already, but I'm not in for reading the whole thread. I'll just give my opinion.

People have this image of evil when they think of witchcraft because for centuries it was beaten into our heads by the Roman Catholic church, and by power hungry Magistrates. Recently many more people are becoming open minded about religions in general, and accept them, though they may never follow them, or agree with them. Acceptance is all we can hope for, and those of you in North America may not feel accepted, but your government is now open to all religions. It's up to the people to follow suit.

As for the Wiccan religion itself, I don't take it any more seriously than Scientology. Simply for the fact that it's barely 100 years old. Try to refute that if you will, I'll just support it with facts. That's not to say I don't take the people seriously, just not the religion.

Point is, if you want to follow it, I'll not think any less of you. If it makes you happy, then by all means, be a Wiccan. It's a belief of peace and love, and to me, that's all I could hope for anyone. Angela actually has lots of interest and support for this creed. smile.gif





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I really hope this isn't taken as an attack. Being a Christian, I know what it's like to be targeted and ridiculed for my religion, and that's the last thing I want people to think I'm doing.


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Shadows 
Posted: 25-Oct-2003, 10:23 PM
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Yes the name Wicca is relitivly new, but the belief system is not... Paganism ( wicca , a name given to the beliefs because paganism conjured up misconcieved images of barbaric, blood drinking, infant killing monsters ) is as old as mankind itself. It is right up there with the worlds oldest profession!

Wicca is not this new age mumbo jumbo that most associate it with. It is instead the belief in all things are equal and must be reviered as such and how one reacts to the world around one's self! It can have many dieties or just one... it is a personal belief system .
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