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Elspeth 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 09:31 PM
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When I was nine my grandmother died. She had been ill and we went back to the family farm to be there. At that time, they didn't let children into the hospital, so I didn't get to see her but the adults would go.
I still remember this clearly though it happened over thirty years ago. I remember watching The Wonderful World of Disney in a livingroom full of siblings and cousins. Everyone was laughing. All of a sudden I stopped. All I could think was why are we laughing, Grandma is dying. I so wanted to shout at everyone to stop laughing, but being a child I kept it to myself. The next morning I awoke to the news she was gone.
There are many ways of explaining this away. I have always been percetptive and observant. I very possibly was just picking up on the concern of the adults. But why then was I overwhelmed with the impending loss at a time when we all were laughing?
A couple of days later I was alone in the house and I really felt I sensed her presence, like if I just turned quicklu enough she would be there. But being a kid I was scared and I got out of there quickly. Now, I've always had a very fertile imagination and I very easily could have worked myself up to a point where I fabricated the feeling, but I've always wondered.


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Compassion is the sometimes fatal capacity for feeling what it is like inside somebody else's skin. It is the knowledge that there can never really be any peace and joy for me until there is peace and joy finally for you too.
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maryellen 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 09:41 PM
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bye bye bye


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Seize the time,. . .live now, make now always the most precious time. Now will never come again- Star Trek TNG

"The report of my death was an exaggeration."
-Mark Twain, After reading his own obituary, June 2, 1897

If you ever have a world, plan ahead, don't eat it! - Star Trek TNG
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 10:04 PM
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Personally I do not feel that we have a certain amount of challenges to meet. I do believe in some kind of heaven or what ever one calls the place in after life, but I do not believe in Hell. There is some good in all of us. A lot more in some than in others. But there still is some good. Who choose if a person is good or bad? You may know someone who you think may be totally evil but at the same time someone else may feel the said person is a good person. Again it goes back to each individual perspective. You can place a rock in the middle of a circle of twenty people, and you will get twenty different perspective of the same rock.

I personally feel you are given a choice after death. To stop where you are at, to be reborn again as another human or another entity, or to come back to be a guiding spirit. I have not come to a total conclusion of where I would be next. I do know that I am not ready to just plain stop. I do not fear death. And I will not alow death to cloud my judgment. I have always been a person who wants to help others if they desire it. If you do not want or need my help I just stand clear, but letting you know that I will be there if you need me.

I have said this before. No man can tell us how we are or not to feel. Each of us has our own power.

May you walk in balance with Creator,
Richard


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May your days be filled with Merriment and May you walk in Balance with Creator.

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Shadows 
Posted: 04-Oct-2003, 12:00 AM
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It appears to me that folks are answering questions here with blinders on!

There are those that keep professing their religion, and those that are trying to have a deep discussion on death and the "life" after. EVERYONE has the right to their beliefs. A question was asked either here on on the other related topic, why christians are so maligned in the world... I will give you my opinion on that:

Because they don't know when to stop trying to convert and just discuss...

I was raised a catholic, about as christian as it gets! My mother is now a priest in another "christian" religion, because the catholics would not let her be a priest.

I have studied almost all the major religions of the world, not much difference between any of them as far as the "great rule" ..."Do unto others as you would have them do unto you..."

But I have choosen to follow my heart and mind, not the laws made by man in the name of a god.

As for joy and laughing.....

It has always been my families tradition at the death of a loved one to laugh, remember the good times, read the letters from the past and just rejoice in the life that was and will continue somewhere. Might be the Scott/Irish in us.

It all does not end with this life... how it continues is what this topic is asking about.
Show respect for the opinions of all, everyone was invited, but keep the hollier then thou to a dull roar please. I don't need to be saved.


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I support the separation of church and hate!

IMAGINATION - the freest and largest nation in the world!


One can not profess to be of "GOD" and show intolerence and prejudice towards the beliefs of others.

Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

"Without food we are nothing, without history we are lost." - SHADOWS


Is iomadh duine laghach a mhill an Creideamh.
Religion has spoiled many a good man.

The clan MacEwen
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Guest
Posted: 04-Oct-2003, 01:06 PM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Oct 3 2003, 10:41 PM)
Barddas: Well, I don't see how anyone can criticize something without ever having any contact with the literature. Why do you claim to be "broad minded" when you shun things you have never seen?


I was not criticizing. Not that you know, but I happen to read biblical achreology quiet often. Even there in that publication, you are not going to hear anyone say "THIS IS WHAT HISTORICALLY HAPPENED". Just as there is no real evidence of King aurthur, Robin hood, and so on. It is speculation, with what information we currently have avalible. Which are stories handed down generation, to generation. And changing a bit with each telling. ie- what becomes myth.
I was *NOT* "shunning" the faith, merely questioning something that is virtually impossible without having been there.
               
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barddas 
Posted: 04-Oct-2003, 01:08 PM
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The above post was from me. I had cleaned out the ol' computer files and I was not logged in when I was posting. Sorry for ANY confusion. smile.gif


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Some men are drawn to oceans, they cannot breathe unless the air is scented with a salty mist. Others are drawn to land that is flat, and the air is sullen and is leaden as August. My people were drawn to mountains- Earl Hamner Jr.

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RavenWing 
Posted: 04-Oct-2003, 01:45 PM
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I'll forgive you this time, just don't do it again giljotiini.gif goof.gif heart.gif




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May all your up's and down's be under the sheets!

Religion is for those who are afraid of going to Hell. Spirituality is for those who have already been there.
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Annabelle 
  Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 12:07 AM
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My mother died 7 years ago to melanomia cancer...she died within 4 month's of diagnosis. At the time I had 2 construction projects going up and felt that if I kept busy I'd have time to adjust to my mom's death...

One of the things I had asked her to do as I sat next to her bed was somehow she could to let me know she was all right.

I had just finished one building and the stress level was coming down. That night as I drove home, suddenly my car filled with the smell of Joy perfume of which my mom always wore.
I hit the switch and the windows we down cleaned out the air and I ran them back up.
3-4 minutes later I could smell it again...I have my mom's perfume but don't wear it cause I don't like it. But I keep it to smell once in a while when I think of her. I realized then mom had come to tell me she was alright...

2 years later I'm at a convention and drive out to the beach in Savannah, Ga and I see a rock so I had walked a ways and decide to take a few minutes to kick back and enjoy the view...suddenly I smell Joy perfume again...

So many things come to mind when we experience strange and unexplainable things happen to us...I'll just hope it meant things were good for mom and that one day I'll see her...
In all things Scottish,
Annabelle




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Annabelle 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 12:11 AM
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Oh yes, and Shadows,
I don't think any of us got our memo to convert you...just enjoy discussing what's in our heart and minds...
Peace Man!
In all things Scottish,
Annabelle
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Roisin-Teagan 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 03:05 AM
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Speaking of death---did anyone here about the Goth band that televised via the Internet an assisted suicide while they were playing on stage. I think I heard they were stopped in the middle of their performance. I can't remember the name of the band. I was pretty shocked. It seemed this was apart of their side show entertainment.

How do any of you feel about assisted suicide?


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Roisin-Teagan

"There, in that hand, on that shoulder under that chin---all of its lightness delicately balanced and its strings skillfully bowed---it becomes a voice."---Rich Mullins

"At 18, if you have oversized aspirations, the whole world sees you as a dreamer. At 40, you get the reputation for being a visionary." ---Rich Mullins

"God gives the gifts where He finds the vessel empty enough to receive them."---C.S. Lewis

Éire go Brách!
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maryellen 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 08:18 AM
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In high school, where the atmophere is generally liberal, I would have voted for euthenasia. However, I'm all grown up and got over that.

"Thou shalt not kill" 'nuff said
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Elspeth 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 08:42 AM
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I see life as a road with fascinating twists and turns. Bends that we cannot see beyond.

And so, for that reason and others, I don't believe in suicide/assisted suicide/euthanasia - because we can never know what was waiting just beyond our sight.

Not that I don't understand the fatigue or disillusion with it all that leads some to make that choice.

But it's like leaving in the fourth quarter with your team down 38- 3. You leave only to find out you missed the greatest comeback of all time.

It could happen.
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ranger 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 12:08 PM
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After sitting by the bedside and watching 3 loved ones who were extremely close to me fight for every breath, suffer excruciating pain, and were never coming out of it, not much of a choice for me. If I ever end up like that I've already got the paperwork taken care of, ...end my suffering and those of my loved ones around me having to go through it.
So, does that make me childish or throw me back to high school, or God forbid make me a liberal, Maryellen? Those who know me know that I am as far away from the liberal side as can be. wink.gif


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"...so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us."

'The Lord of the Rings' - Book one
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tartangal 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 01:19 PM
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This is such an emotive subject.Being a nurse, I too have seen and heard of such suffering, and to be the onlooker when someone you love hurts and yet you can't help, is in itself a painful and scarring experience.
I suppose my outlook is slightly different than yours Ranger, although I can completely understand where you are coming from. I feel that the answer to this suffering is not to terminate a life early but to provide better palliative and terminal care. To allow a loved one to die without pain but with dignity is what we should provide.
The other fear that I have with euthanasia/assisted suicide is in who decides when a life is no longer worth living, when there is no quality, what about people who suffer from depression at times in their lives and during these periods want to die. I am sure that they can make compelling arguments for their right to die , but would it be their opinion three or six months down the line?
I have fears that if you open the gates to this then eventually we will have people deciding for others like those with profound mental or physical disibilities on whether their quality of life is sufficient to keep them alive. Will cost of care start to creep into the equation? I don't know.
I only know that for me,personally, I want to do the best that I can for the people in my care .I promote a relationship of trust with them and I fear that that could not develop if i was involved in euthanasia .
So in my long-winded and wordy way I guess I'm saying no...I don't agree with it.


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Jules


As a well-spent day brings happy sleep, so life well used brings happy death.
Leonardo da Vinci (1452 - 1519)
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Annabelle 
Posted: 05-Oct-2003, 03:04 PM
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When I think of Suicide I can't help but sing the song to "Mash"...
Too deep for me...hey I love life...don't want to go even when I get to 100 cause I'd miss all of the fun!
In All things Scottish,
Annabelle angel.gif
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