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Elspeth 
Posted: 01-Oct-2003, 02:42 PM
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I can't imagine Heaven without animals either, or hills, or trees, or rivers, etc. etc.... That's why I like the concept of a new Heaven and Earth where what is here is made perfect.
But, bottom line..... I'm just hoping to get in!


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maryellen 
Posted: 02-Oct-2003, 06:34 AM
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Here's my idea: I don't think Heaven has earthly things at all (hills, trees, etc). I think in infinite wisdom and with an incomprehensible God that it will be something much better that we cannot possibly understand right now. It is much much better than Earth and we leave all of that baggage (like sin) behind. Just a thought. msncoffecup.gif

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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 02-Oct-2003, 02:13 PM
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Among my people there are several view on death. Personally I do believe we come back as spirit guides or reincarnated, that you are given a choice. I have had too many experiences meeting other people, I deal with the public alot, when I look into their eyes, I known them from someplace even thought I have never met them in this lifetime.

I also had a near death experience not long ago. My Doctors gave me 2 years to live max., which was now 3 1/2 years ago. Even though recovery is slow, but I'M STILL KICKING and getting stronger. The only thing that I would miss on passing are the many friends that I have aquired over the years, but I feel I will come back and renew old friendships.

I, like Roisin-Teagan, do not belive in one religion. I believe Creator gives each person their own concept of him/her so that they could understand more.

May you walk in balance with Creator.
Richard Bercot


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Elspeth 
Posted: 02-Oct-2003, 04:16 PM
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I believe in Heaven. I want to believe in Heaven. I'm tired. I don't want to come back. I don't want to have to worry anymore.

But that doesn't mean I don't think it could be different for others. Perhaps some are reincarnated. I like the idea of there being Spirit Guides among us. I can use all of the help I can get.
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Swanny 
Posted: 02-Oct-2003, 10:54 PM
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Personally, I do not hold any specific belief regarding what many refer to as the "after-life". To me it falls under a vast category of mystery, and I think it no accident that "mystic" and "mystery" share the same root.

Traditional Lakota people refer to the primary diety as "Wakan Tanka", which literally translates into "Great Mystery" and even the most wise, experienced and devout medicine man describes such unanswerable questions as "Tanka" or "Mystery", meaning that the answer is unkown and unknowable to living human beings.

This evening as I smoked my chanupa I meditated on this topic. The mental voice that I associate with Grandfather Wallace Black Elk answered the question like this. "It does no good to worry about the next life while we are still living in this one".

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Annabelle 
  Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 12:09 AM
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Thank You Elspeth,
I appreciate your contribution! Christian's have always been put down since the beginning of time! Proud to say I am one...
As they said in the "MUMMY!" Death is only a beginning!
Can't wait to get there and slap Eve for childbirth pains I got when I had my children...
In all things Scottish,
Annabelle


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RavenWing 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 08:41 AM
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Would anyone be willing to introduce beliefs of other cultures?

I am looking some up.


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Elspeth 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 11:18 AM
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QUOTE (Annabelle @ Oct 3 2003, 01:09 AM)

Can't wait to get there and slap Eve for childbirth pains I got when I had my children...
In all things Scottish,
Annabelle

biggrin.gif
That is exactly what I thought first time in labor. Glad I'm not alone. I mean, I didn't eat the apple, why did I have to pay for it! There's some meaning there completely missed by me. cool.gif

And Swanny you are so right... contemplations such as these are just that. We get no answers now. It is just sometimes easier to face the life we must live now if we have the promise of a better afterlife before us.
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maryellen 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 01:58 PM
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I'd like to correct the myth on "the apple" and Eve. There is no apple in that story -- someone just picked it. It actually says "Fruit" in the text which is a very similar word in Hebrew to "Evil".

Raven- yes, I liked it when other different cultures and faiths were sharing their thoughts. But, I don't see any more. I could post other myths I know of - but I don't believe in it, just Christianity.
If anyone doubts the new testament or any of it, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel which proves historically what happened.
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Richard Bercot 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 02:42 PM
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I am a Non-Christian. But my beliefs do not vary greatly of that of Christianity. My belief is in Coshallequa, which is one of the Algonquin Religions. I do not like discussing my Religion this way. It is more of a personal matter. I can tell you we have one Major Rule, "Do No Harm", and that is to all thing. Anyhow it is difficult for me to express everyone's opinion in the area, just what I personally feel. As not to repeat myself, I have already posted here yesterday.

I am not one of those people who feel whatever happens, happens. I am here to do good so that is what my plans are. Here and the afterlife.

May you walk in balance with Creator,
Richard
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barddas 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 03:13 PM
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QUOTE (maryellen @ Oct 3 2003, 03:58 PM)
I'd like to correct the myth on "the apple" and Eve. There is no apple in that story -- someone just picked it. It actually says "Fruit" in the text which is a very similar word in Hebrew to "Evil".

Raven- yes, I liked it when other different cultures and faiths were sharing their thoughts. But, I don't see any more. I could post other myths I know of - but I don't believe in it, just Christianity.
If anyone doubts the new testament or any of it, read "The Case for Christ" by Lee Strobel which proves historically what happened.

***** This is not to pick a fight*****

But, how can ANYONE write a book that "proves what historically happened" some 2000 yrs ago? At best, it is speculation. And this is with ANY topic. Yes, I am what you would call pagan. Yes, I believe that Christ *did* exisist. But, saying that a 2000 yr. old history is acurate is highly unlikely. Just as the Book- Life and death of a druid prince. It is a highly likely speculation. But, will never be able to be 100% varified. And I agree that one must have faith. And I repect that, and that is what makes all religion special. Is the belief.

But, unforunately after many, many translations, re writings and what not.... human error does take effect. I am *NOT* saying that it did not happen. But to claim to be able to prove historically what happend difinitivley is really almost impossible. Just due to the lack of historical record. Whether it be lost to time, translation or what ever.... It is easier to acurately tell the climate from the time period, then the life of individuals.

And again, I am saying this of ALL beliefs. I have read books of my religious persuation, and they claim to be historicaly acurate. That is impossible...They had no written records.... all that is left is the folk lore passed down from generation to generation.... It is sort of odd to say that you don't believe in "them" ( Myths) Adam and Eve are to be the first humans ever created, but what about Lillith? Adams first wife. There is mention of her in the Koron(sp) a much old text than the New Testament.
I guess what I am trying to get at is, Every religion is and always will be shrouded in mystery. One should believe what they feel, not what someone claims to be historically acurate..... Some myths in all faiths have merit. they survived the ages for a reason. People had faith in them....

ie- a religion


I hope I didn't offend anyone.

unsure.gif Just my 2 cents on religion as a whole. Not one specific. I did not participate in the quarrels earlier. This is just good debate......No malice intended. thumbs_up.gif


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Elspeth 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 04:14 PM
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Apple, peaches or pumpkin pie, I still could never figure out why I had to pay for Eve's sins. One of those mysteries.

And Raven Wing, if you or anyone else could explain Hinduism and the Wheel to me I'd appreciate it. (I hope it was Hindu, been a while and children suck all of the short term memory right out of your skull.) Anyway, we tried to study it once and I know we never got close to really understanding the meaning.....

All I know is that it seems inherent in the human condition to long for three things when contemplating death.

1. That life goes on in some form
2. The what we move on to is better than where we are at
3. That death does not permanently sever our ties with our loved ones.

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barddas 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 05:49 PM
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QUOTE (Elspeth @ Oct 3 2003, 06:14 PM)
Apple, peaches or pumpkin pie, I still could never figure out why I had to pay for Eve's sins. One of those mysteries.

And Raven Wing, if you or anyone else could explain Hinduism and the Wheel to me I'd appreciate it. (I hope it was Hindu, been a while and children suck all of the short term memory right out of your skull.) Anyway, we tried to study it once and I know we never got close to really understanding the meaning.....

All I know is that it seems inherent in the human condition to long for three things when contemplating death.

1. That life goes on in some form
2. The what we move on to is better than where we are at
3. That death does not permanently sever our ties with our loved ones.

I will see what i can dig up. I had a few books. But they have since disappeared into the nether world. LOL! I know a little, but not enough to go blindly discussing it. smile.gif

Elspeth, I agree with what you said. The three inherant conditions we have about death...

I will pose a question to all of we broad minded thinkers here.

After life, when we die, do you think we continue on in another incarnation, until a certain amount of "Challenges" or "lessons" have been learned? Or, do we instantly go to heavan, the great hunting field, Summerland, Valhalla, Avalon.. Whatever form you chose
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3Ravens 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 07:57 PM
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I don't know about anyone else, but I plan on coming back...I have a LOT more to do here!


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Dreamer1 
Posted: 03-Oct-2003, 08:06 PM
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Barddas, you've asked what we all believe will happen to us after death. I've always believed in Heaven, and spending an Eternity with those we love, "Happily Ever After...". However, recently I've begun to wonder if that might not wear quite thin and become exceedingly boring. I don't have an answer for that one yet.

That said, I can relate a couple of unusual experiences which may help provoke more thought on this subject. The first occurred about 15-16 years ago. I went into work one day, and was approached by a co-worker whom I didn't know very well. She was annoyed with me, and I didn't know why. When she finally decided to talk to me about it, she said that she'd seen me driving past her the day before and that I'd been extremely rude to my passenger. When I told her I'd been alone, she just got angrier and began describing the woman who'd been with me. It seems she'd been talking to me, apparently very intently, and I'd completely ignored her. It had left my co-worker feeling very uneasy and upset that I could behave that way. The description she gave me of my passenger PERFECTLY matched my Great-Grandmother, who passed away when I was a child! Furthermore, I had been completely alone in the car, so it couldn't have been a trick of the light, or anything else.

The second instance/occurrance happened to my Aunt about 6 months after my Uncle suddenly died. She was still grieving for him. She told my Mother that one night she woke up from a sound sleep to see my Uncle standing next to her bed, smiling at her. He told her that she shouldn't worry about him, that he loved her, that he was quite all right, and that she should be happy and not be afraid. My initial reaction to this was that she'd dreamt the whole thing, but she said the experience was very real, that she knew she really was awake. The point seems to be that it doesn't matter. That experience changed her whole outlook, and left her feeling very much relieved. Maybe it is easier for those who love us to reach us through our dreams, I don't know.

I've had a couple of similar things happen that involved pets (don't laugh!). Both of those experiences were shared by other people who were equally as shaken as I was.

Maybe we are given an opportunity to visit those we love, and try to help them in their lives. It would certainly give us a much more constructive and rewarding Eternity to look forward to! I don't think I'd ever want to truly be seperated from my loved ones!

Just some things to think over. Has anyone else had similar experiences?

Dreamer1


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