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> Ground Zero Mosque?, Feisal Abdul Rauf - Liaison or Threat?
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Antwn 
Posted: 16-Jun-2010, 03:23 PM
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So presumably you all would object to the building of a Catholic cathedral near an elementary school because amongst the priesthood there have been paedofiles?

By the way Patch, a Muslim is a believer in a religion called Islam. There is no more a Muslim race than there is a Christian race.



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Patch 
Posted: 16-Jun-2010, 03:45 PM
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Many Catholic churches have schools. I definitely do object to pedophiles but the church does not "promote" pedophilia.

Muslim is the race of people, just as Asians and Caucasians are races of people.

Islam is a religion as are others through out the world.

To my knowledge Islam, as spelled out in the Koran, is the only one that calls those who refuse to convert ("ME") infidels and grants it's participants permission to kill me. I have a problem with that. Islam promotes virtually anything in the advancement of that faith (to use the term loosely.)

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Jillian 
Posted: 23-Jun-2010, 07:51 AM
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The first interview in this video is that of Feisel's wife. You be the judge.

By Karina Ioffee
Reuters
Monday, June 21, 2010; 4:11 PM

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Plans to build a mosque near the site of the September 11 attacks have touched off a firestorm among New Yorkers nearly a decade after Muslim extremists linked to al Qaeda slammed planes into the World Trade Center.

The proposed mosque is now awaiting approval from the New York City Landmarks Preservation Commission which expects to vote on the issue sometime this summer.

"HITTING SUCH A NERVE"
The dispute plays into a broader, unanswered questions of what should become of the World Trade Center site. Some favor a rebuilding to show the city's strength and resilience, while others believe the site should be a memorial and a place of reflection and remembrance.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/conte...0062103654.html

The next video is Pamela Geller--organizer against the mosque:

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/06/06/new.york....sque/index.html

My opinion after viewing both videos still stands that the mosque should not be built at Ground Zero. Move away a couple of blocks (since they are already roughly 10 blocks away). Feisel's wife simply dismisses the emotions of Americans against this. I think Geller should ask to see the Quran version by which they preach. If the Muslims want to quell fears, maybe they should consider compromising by never preaching in Arabic--so that all Americans could walk into that mosque everyday and understand exactly what they are preaching.

Just my musings again....

Jillian








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Patch 
Posted: 23-Jun-2010, 11:15 AM
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I agree that the families of those who died there should decide what type of memorial be built in the area. This would be akin to buying land near Arlington cemetery to build a hitler memorial to promote acceptance of what the Nazzi's did in WW2.

This is an "in your face action" and will only cause more hatred on both sides. Bear in mind that we have yet to deal with the children of those who were killed by radical islam in the tower attack. That could go beyond anything we have yet seen!

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Antwn 
Posted: 23-Jun-2010, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (Jillian @ 23-Jun-2010, 07:51 AM)
My opinion after viewing both videos still stands that the mosque should not be built at Ground Zero. Move away a couple of blocks (since they are already roughly 10 blocks away). Feisel's wife simply dismisses the emotions of Americans against this. I think Geller should ask to see the Quran version by which they preach. If the Muslims want to quell fears, maybe they should consider compromising by never preaching in Arabic--so that all Americans could walk into that mosque everyday and understand exactly what they are preaching.


They're already 10 blocks away? So its just the positioning of the center which is problematic for you? That actually might be a good compromise, just to keep suspicions at bay, exaggerated though they might be, though there are mosques all over America, and you're not going to stop jihadist rhetoric because you refused one 10 blocks from ground zero. There are different sects, different interpretations of scripture, belief and behavior, but I don't think there is more than one "version" of the Koran?

I couldn't help wincing reading some of your links Jillian.....some of Geller's statements are flagrantly ignorant. For example:
"We feel it would be more appropriate maybe to build a center dedicated to expunging the Quranic texts of the violent ideology that inspired jihad, or perhaps a center to the victims of hundreds of millions of years of jihadi wars, land enslavements, cultural annihilations and mass slaughter," Geller said.

Hundreds of millions of years of jihadi wars? Mohammad wasn't born until circa 600 AD. Is she suggesting dinosaurs engaged in jihadi wars? Geller wants to edit another religion's holy scripture? Fine, lets allow atheists to edit the Bible. Then there's this from the article:

"Local political leaders turned out in support of the community last month after Mark Williams of the conservative Tea Party Express reportedly said the mosque was for "the worship of the terrorists' monkey-god."

Monkey god? Is he kidding? If this is the level of insight we're to respect then lets all go watch celebrity bowling. We'll be equally enlightened. Why are people as ignorant as Geller and Williams worth taking seriously?

Muslim "preaching" might be in a varitey of languages including English. They just read the Koran in Arabic since that's the language in which its written, and any American can pick up an English translation and find out what it contains. Some Muslims don't know Arabic, particularly the classical literary Arabic of the Koran. At any rate, one of your articles said they were happy to translate their prayers into English for Ms. Geller or anyone else who's interested.

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Patch 
Posted: 23-Jun-2010, 01:50 PM
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I have the Koran translated by an Imam on a site for those from around the US of that faith.

I assume that man knew what he was talking about. Then again since they are allowed to lie to gentiles but not those of their own faith, who knows. Their own religion brands them as not being trust worthy!!


Considering the relatives of the 9/11 victims, it involves a lot of people.

Mohammed could be actually considered a monkey prophet when one considers the beliefs he espoused. Sex with very young girls, come on!!

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Jillian 
Posted: 23-Jun-2010, 07:03 PM
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Antwn--

Yes it is the positioning at Ground Zero that bothers me the most. I do not agree w/you regarding the Quran as I have read verses that specifically target non-believers. I may not like having mosques in my town, but they have the right to have them. That's my issue and I'll admit it. But I really resent the insensitivity of them placing a major mosque at Ground Zero.

Perhaps these videos will provide more insight. Both are converted Muslims. The first is Walid Shoebat, former terrorist. The second is Brigitte Gabriel a converted Muslim who experienced Hamas in Lebanon.

"Former terrorist Walid Shoebat, reveals disturbing contradictions between Ground Zero mosque founder Imam Faisal Abdul Rauf’s English statements and his Arabic comments. Abdul Rauf directly contradicted his New York Daily News article from earlier this week, and, in the process, lied to New York City about his true intentions." http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=111&load=3660

Brigitte Gabriel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpHOt_u2sTA...player_embedded

Jillian
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Antwn 
Posted: 24-Jun-2010, 01:11 PM
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Well the video from Walid Shoebat was interesting.
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Dogshirt 
Posted: 24-Jun-2010, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE
hundreds of millions of years of jihadi wars


That must be based on "Man hours", just as a 40 hour week on our jobs constitute several hundred "Man hours".
Or it might just be RECTAL MATH(Pulling numbers out of your a$$)!
I'm inclined to the later.


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Jillian 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 07:12 AM
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London fighting a mega mosque near the new olympic stadium being built for the 2012 olympics.

http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=111&load=3597

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Jillian 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 07:28 AM
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[QUOTE]Boston Globe / Opinion / Op-ed Jeff Jacoby

A mosque at ground zero?
By Jeff Jacoby
Globe Columnist / June 6, 2010
IS GROUND ZERO the right place for a major new mosque and Islamic cultural center? Cordoba House is a 15-story, $100 million development to be built just 600 feet from where the World Trade Center stood; the plans include the mosque, a 500-seat auditorium, swimming pool, restaurant, and bookstore.

The prospect of an Islamic center so close to ground zero is, not surprisingly, controversial. Many relatives of Sept. 11 victims are strongly opposed. One group, 9/11 Families for a Safe & Strong America, calls Cordoba House “a gross insult to the memory of those who were killed on that terrible day.’’ But the project also has strong political support. New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg and Manhattan Borough President Scott Stringer are among its backers, and Cordoba House was endorsed by lower Manhattan’s Community Board No. 1 in a near-unanimous vote last month.

Of particular interest are the views of leading Muslim moderates — Muslims known for their commitment to tolerance and pluralism, and for their opposition to all forms of radical Islam.

One such individual is Zuhdi Jasser, a physician, US Navy veteran, and founder of the American Islamic Forum for Democracy.

Jasser reminisced last week about his family’s history of building mosques in the heartland communities where they lived. His parents, Syrian immigrants to the United States, helped create the Fox Valley Islamic Center in Neenah, Wis., in 1980. “This was during the Iranian hostage crisis,’’ he recalled, “and some of the local residents wanted the Zoning Commission to prevent the mosque from going forward.’’ But the commissioners gave their blessing to the project, and the modest mosque — the construction budget was just $80,000 — became part of the neighborhood. Later the family later moved to western Arkansas, where they joined with others to create the Islamic Center of Fort Smith. As recently as March, Jasser came out in support of Muslims in Sheboygan, Wis., whose plans for a new place of worship were meeting with vocal resistance.

But he adamantly opposes the ground zero mosque.
“For us, a mosque was always a place to pray, to be together on holidays — not a way to make an ostentatious architectural statement,’’ Jasser said. “Ground zero shouldn’t be about promoting Islam. It’s the place where war was declared on us as Americans.’’ To use that space for Muslim outreach, he argues, is “the worst form of misjudgment.’’

Equally opposed is Stephen Suleyman Schwartz, a devout Muslim and director of the Center for Islamic Pluralism in Washington.

Schwartz notes that the spiritual leader of the Cordoba Initiative, Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf, describes himself as a Sufi — a Muslim focused on Islamic mysticism and spiritual wisdom. But “building a 15-story Islamic center at ground zero isn’t something a Sufi would do,’’ according to Schwartz, also a practitioner of Sufism. “Sufism is supposed to be based on sensitivity toward others,’’ yet Cordoba House comes across as “grossly insensitive.’’ He rejects Rauf’s stance that a highly visible Muslim presence at ground zero is the way to make a statement opposing what happened on 9/11. Better, in his view, is the approach of many Muslims “who hate terrorism and who have gone privately to the site and recited prayers for the dead silently and unperceived by others.’’

Ali al-Ahmed, a Saudi native who founded the Institute for Gulf Affairs and is an advocate for civil rights and religious freedom in the Middle East, hopes for the best from Cordoba House. “A mosque should be a good thing,’’ he told me. But he worries about the number of Americans who may be “hurt and upset’’ by the project, and wonders whether a mosque is really the best thing for Muslims to build so close to ground zero. Why not something less emotionally charged, he asks — a social-service agency, perhaps, or an assisted living center for the elderly?

Muslims must take the feelings of Americans into account, Ahmed contends. He cites no less an Islamic authority than the Imam Ali, Mohammed’s influential son-in-law. “Reconciliation of your differences,’’ says Imam Ali in the collection of teachings known as the Peak of Eloquence, “is more worthy than all prayers and fasting.’’

Will a mosque at ground zero make reconciliation more likely? Or will it needlessly rub salt in the unhealed wounds of 9/11?

Jeff Jacoby can be reached at [email protected] [QUOTE]

Jillian

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Jillian 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 07:34 AM
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Ground Zero mosque hearings to begin next week -- July 13th. I'll be curious to see how much media coverage this will get since I've heard relatively NOTHING about it in the lamestream media.

If they feel so good about this construction...then tell me...why so tight-lipped about the media coverage/

http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/city...date-angry-crow

Jillian
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Patch 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 10:59 AM
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QUOTE (Jillian @ 07-Jul-2010, 08:34 AM)
Ground Zero mosque hearings to begin next week -- July 13th. I'll be curious to see how much media coverage this will get since I've heard relatively NOTHING about it in the lamestream media.

If they feel so good about this construction...then tell me...why so tight-lipped about the media coverage/

http://www.observer.com/2010/politics/city...date-angry-crow

Jillian


I am not shocked that this would happen in NY. Were the people of my community in charge it would not even be considered. We are kind enough that we would offer them an option though. I am also shocked that NY citizens even polled at 52% against it, or then maybe not. Here there would be near 100% opposition after a type 09/11 attack.

I can not comprehend why they would not expect hate and anger. Had Catholics destroyed the towers and killed over 3,000 people I would EXPECT people to hate me though I did not do it, but only suported the religion that did.

That was an excellent link!

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Antwn 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 12:41 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 07-Jul-2010, 10:59 AM)
I can not comprehend why they would not expect hate and anger. Had Catholics destroyed the towers and killed over 3,000 people I would EXPECT people to hate me though I did not do it, but only suported the religion that did.


Some people have a broader mind than you Patch. I don't hate Catholics because of hundreds of worldwide cases of child abuse and subsequent coverups. I don't hate Catholics because of the inquisition, where historians estimate between 40,000 and 100,000 people were burned alive in the public square for supposed witchcraft in Europe. I don't hate Catholics for their suppression of birth control, stem cell research and long history of the suppression of scientific advancement since Gallileo. Stupidity and ignorance inspires anger yes, and befuddlement as to why a billion people remain believers, but both gullibility and easy justifications for atrocities have been prevelent in all human civilizations, despite the word "civil" in that term, and none have been immune. There are some people who can actually make a distinction between an individual Catholic and the sordid history of the church itself - some people who actually fail to lump all individuals who believe the truth of a specific religion with the mistakes or even atrocities made by those in authority over that religion. The fact that there are still roughly a billion Catholics amid such history is evidence that Catholics themselves can make such distinctions. If you're unwilling to make them yourself, that's your problem. I'm just reminding you that some are willing to exercise their minds with a greater degree of nuance than the degree for which you're willing to give them credit.

Regarding the hearing Jillian mentioned, its a HEARING not a final judgement. Public officials have an obligation to hear a request, and its a hearing for the proposed demolition of the existing building where the mosque might stand. That's not the same thing as approval of the mosque. This is the 7th of July, six days from the hearing date. To presume that the media will not cover it seems to me to be premature.

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Patch 
Posted: 07-Jul-2010, 01:36 PM
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I could care less what happened a hundred years ago or longer. I am familiar with what happened but I am intelligent enough not to dwell on it. Actually, there was no discussion of "history" here until your post and it is not referenced in the topic. We are not here to discuss history but "Replying to Ground Zero Mosque?" . 9/11 is now! The survivors of 9/11 are now!

The ill will toward muslims and the islamic faith has diminished little if any and maybe has even gotten worse since B. Hussein Obama began his love fest with them.

There is considerable ill will within the Catholic community about the actions of it's priests. Locally, and by that I mean a 40 mile radius or so, there are 11 protestant ministers either in prison or awaiting trial for child abuse. I would estimate that there are close to a hundred churches of various size in that area. Mostly they are "youth" ministers. We also have two school teachers in the mix. It seems that the pedophiles are more prevalent everywhere in vocations which deal with children where they would of course be drawn by their depravity.

I expect little to come from the hearing unless they are "overwhelmed" by protestors. As there were 1,000 once, with publicity there may be many more now.

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Patch    
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