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Antwn 
Posted: 20-Mar-2010, 04:50 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 19-Mar-2010, 12:42 PM)
Our religious origins are part of our history and that is why it is a legitimate part of discussions today.

 

Of course they're part of our history, but how much emphasis is to be placed upon that singular issue? Is it an issue one mentions in passing or devotes time discussing? Well how important is it? What's more significant, what the founders did and how they accomplished it and what bearing it had on our country and the world or what religion the various founders believed while they were doing it?


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Camac
Posted: 20-Mar-2010, 06:37 PM
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It seems to those like me on the outside looking in that Religion is working it's way into American Politics more every day. The Health care issue is most prominent now what with the religious right screaming blue bloody murder over abortion funding. Like it or not abortion is part of medical care. It is the law of the land here and our politicians whether they agree with it or not won't go near the subject with a ten foot pole because it is coverd under our Medical System and women have the right to choose. Our PM tried to inject his religious beliefs into the Gov. Foreign Aid Program last week and the you know what hit the fan and forced him to reverse the decision. It just seems that every time one reads or watches the news coming out of the US some Right Wing Religious group is trying to force it's beliefs on your whole country. I read an interesting article on the subject of Religious freedom that occurred in Philidelphia in the 1790. It seems that Elihu Palmer annouced that he was going to make a public speech on Deism on a certain Sunday and it sparked riots in the streets. The good citizens of Philly weren't really into total religious freedom and the man had to get out of town. So even back in the early days of your nation religion played an big role.


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Antwn 
Posted: 21-Mar-2010, 05:31 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 20-Mar-2010, 06:37 PM)
Antwyn

It seems to those like me on the outside looking in that Religion is working it's way into American Politics more every day. The Health care issue is most prominent now what with the religious right screaming blue bloody murder over abortion funding. Like it or not abortion is part of medical care. It is the law of the land here and our politicians whether they agree with it or not won't go near the subject with a ten foot pole because it is coverd under our Medical System and women have the right to choose. Our PM tried to inject his religious beliefs into the Gov. Foreign Aid Program last week and the you know what hit the fan and forced him to reverse the decision. It just seems that every time one reads or watches the news coming out of the US some Right Wing Religious group is trying to force it's beliefs on your whole country. I read an interesting article on the subject of Religious freedom that occurred in Philidelphia in the 1790. It seems that Elihu Palmer annouced that he was going to make a public speech on Deism on a certain Sunday and it sparked riots in the streets. The good citizens of Philly weren't really into total religious freedom and the man had to get out of town. So even back in the early days of your nation religion played an big role.


Camac

Interesting that you mention abortion, since that's a big issue in our health care bill about to be up for a vote.

Yes, debate over religion is as old as the Republic and is as fervent as ever.

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Camac
Posted: 04-Apr-2010, 11:40 AM
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Anywn;

After doing some more reading into Deism I have come to the conclusion that this concept of God creating the Universe then washing his hands is not for me. Part of the philosophy I can relate to but I firmly believe that the Universe is the Supreme Creator and that all stems from it. The concept of God, this mystical, all powerful, all knowing being is an invention of man. As the saying goes, God created man so that man could create God.

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Shadows 
Posted: 04-Apr-2010, 12:21 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 19-Mar-2010, 01:42 PM)
Camac

It was a "discussion" until the equal number of democrats on the board got stupid and all but one walked out, thus leaving all of the decisions up to Republicans and one democrat.  Only one woman walked out over the T. Jefferson issue.  Personally, I disagree with the Republicans on that one because it is history like it or not.  The democrats got just what their ignorance gained for them.  There were a number of other radical left ideas that they were arguing over including "Mary has two mommy's" and much much more.  Since mainstream America is opposed to those ideas, most of them do not want this crap taught to their children in school.  Those who want their children exposed can handle that at home.

Our religious origins are part of our history and that is why it is a legitimate part of discussions today.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

Bringing one's politics into religion and one's religion into politics is an unsound pratice . learn from history...

A party affiliation should have nothing to do with one's religious beliefs... ignorence is aboundant on all sides.


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Am fear nach gleidh na h–airm san t–sith, cha bhi iad aige ’n am a’ chogaidh.
He that keeps not his arms in time of peace will have none in time of war.

"We're all in this together , in the parking lot between faith and fear" ... O.C.M.S.

“Beasts feed; man eats; only the man of intellect knows how to eat well.”

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Patch 
Posted: 04-Apr-2010, 06:57 PM
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I told you WHAT happened at the meetings. Both sides were discussing religion, rewriting history and other points as related to childrens text books. The R's stayed in the meeting and the D's walked out. Actually, I can find no mention of politics in their discussions till the D's brought it up and started walking out. I am sure that all present knew who were the conservatives and who where the liberals just as I am certain they did not wear name tags indicating their political affiliation.

Back in the 50's the Russians walked out of the UN debates over North and South Korea and BINGO, we had UN involvement and the Korean war. That is what should really have been learned from "history!" Had they stayed in the meeting the outcome could have been different

What did the D's think would happen when they walked out?

The rules allowed members to pass their ideas with a majority vote by the "members present." One needs need to know the rules too, much like the UN again.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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Antwn 
Posted: 07-Apr-2010, 11:23 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 04-Apr-2010, 06:57 PM)
I told you WHAT happened at the meetings. Both sides were discussing religion, rewriting history and other points as related to childrens text books. The R's stayed in the meeting and the D's walked out. Actually, I can find no mention of politics in their discussions till the D's brought it up and started walking out. I am sure that all present knew who were the conservatives and who where the liberals just as I am certain they did not wear name tags indicating their political affiliation.


I think you're missing the point. The point is what should be taught to kids about history and to leave out one of the American system's most important architects for superficial and highly political reasons is counter-educational as I see it. Whether Dems walked out or not is not the issue, its only the politics. What the kids who grow up might ultimately understand is what was kept from them and why, and the fact that facts themselves were of minor importance compared to agenda driven indoctrination, however subtle. Later they may ask themselves, their parents and educators why Jefferson was "removed from history". Its for the withholding of ideas, something Jefferson himself would have no doubt deplored. Those who wish to alter history to instill a pre-ordained set of conclusions and do so by withholding historical fact which may call those conclusions into question, have no interest in education. Their interest instead is in the control of thought, conclusions and values ultimately drawn from historical study. Kids must eventually ask themselves why they were so distrusted, why weren't ideas trusted, particularly ideas from primary founders of the American system of government. What were authorities in charge of their education trying to hide from them and why? That's what's sad and unfortunately all to typical.
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Patch 
Posted: 07-Apr-2010, 01:23 PM
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Read my earlier posts here.
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Antwn 
Posted: 18-Apr-2010, 04:46 PM
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The partisanship of this issue is only the political side, which is unfortunate but probably unavoidable considering the contentiousness of the culture wars. Bottom line is history curricula should be determined by historians not politicians of either persuasion. Historians know what's relevant and where to prioritize. History becomes political because agendas are involved. One does no service to new generations by teaching them what to think, how about teaching how to think? That's not accomplished by the withholding of historical facts or principle dramatis personae of the historical stage.
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Patch 
Posted: 19-Apr-2010, 08:14 AM
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Again, read my posts here.
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Antwn 
Posted: 19-Apr-2010, 07:01 PM
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I did. Is there something specific you think I'm missing from those posts? A point you'd like to emphasize?
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Patch 
Posted: 19-Apr-2010, 07:16 PM
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I was opposed to changing history in textbooks (Jefferson).
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Antwn 
Posted: 19-Apr-2010, 07:38 PM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 19-Apr-2010, 07:16 PM)
I was opposed to changing history in textbooks (Jefferson).

Okay, thanks for the clarification!
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