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> Is Obama Really Satan?, Or just the Anitchrist?
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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Sonee @ 11-Aug-2009, 01:53 AM)
He refuses to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem.....
He tells foreign governments that we are a muslim nation.....
He is attempting to nationalize every major industry in the country so that he and his regime can control everything.....
He is trying to control what we see, hear, and even what we think.....

There is very little GOOD being done and very much BAD....oh sure, maybe a very bare FEW of his things are having a very bare MINIMUM of a good effect, (of course I can't actually point one out but I'm sure someone somewhere will make up, i mean come up with something) but in the long run EVERYTHING he is doing is bad. He is turning our country into at best a socialist country and at worst a totalitarian country. Look for the red curtain soon to be dropping all around our border....except for the one with Mexico....more freeloading uninsured/underinsured people taking hard working americans jobs and tax money to live high on the hog, not learn any English but expect ME to learn Spanish are very much welcome.

Just for the record, before any of you bleeding hearts start shouting 'racist' I have absolutely no problem with anyone crossing the border to come here and live....as long as it is in a legal manner, follows the laws put in place for the protection of AMERICA and AMERICANS and actually learns the language of the country in which they CHOOSE to live.

He refuses to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem.....
He tells foreign governments that we are a muslim nation.....
He is attempting to nationalize every major industry in the country so that he and his regime can control everything.....
He is trying to control what we see, hear, and even what we think.....


1. Refuses? You know the contents of his heart? You know the reason he didn't do so, if true? You know the circumstances? When and where was this? Or is it a figment of talk radio's imagination
2. Every industry? Not even a majority or even 1/2 of the industries - and within those industries not even a sizeable fraction of companies
3. How? Who has the capacity to control what you think?

There is very little GOOD being done and very much BAD....oh sure, maybe a very bare FEW of his things are having a very bare MINIMUM of a good effect, (of course I can't actually point one out but I'm sure someone somewhere will make up, i mean come up with something) but in the long run EVERYTHING he is doing is bad. He is turning our country into at best a socialist country and at worst a totalitarian country. Look for the red curtain soon to be dropping all around our border....except for the one with Mexico....more freeloading uninsured/underinsured people taking hard working americans jobs and tax money to live high on the hog, not learn any English but expect ME to learn Spanish are very much welcome.

This is a supreme example of the exaggeration to which I refer. Everything he's doing is bad, oh yeah there is a bare minimum of good effect but I'm sure that's inadvertent, yes? We're socialists now on the verge of totalitarianism. Nothing of what you're saying here means anything. You've merely given examples of your propensity to exaggerate and throw out sophisticated terminologies you can neither exemplify nor explain. Congratuations. Oh, and by the way - the immigration problem to which you refer has been going on for decades. Eleven million people don't come into a country, work and establish themselves overnight. But of course Obama is personally responsible for that during the 8 months of his presidency. I have been accused here of inability to think. Would someone point out to me where the thought is in Sonee's post? Clue: unsubstantiated claims are not examples of thought, nor are absolutist statements. "Everything he's doing is bad" is a fine example of lack of thought. That which you can't elucidate you must not understand.

Look for the red curtain soon to be dropping all around our border

Oh I get it! You're the reincarnation of Joe McCarthy!


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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:01 PM
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"He refuses to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem.....
He tells foreign governments that we are a muslim nation.....
He is attempting to nationalize every major industry in the country so that he and his regime can control everything.....
He is trying to control what we see, hear, and even what we think....."


Where is all this coming from? I want to know too -- specifics. Otherwise, I'm afraid it all begins to sound like an attack of hysterics -- or else the fabricated accusations of one who is so convinced that this man must be removed from office that the end completely justifies the means (calumny, hyperbole, fearmongering, false witness, down and out lying). So just provide some examples, some instances, some reliable sources.
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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:10 PM
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He refuses to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem.....
He tells foreign governments that we are a muslim nation.....
He is attempting to nationalize every major industry in the country so that he and his regime can control everything.....
He is trying to control what we see, hear, and even what we think.....


You know if you're really concerned about governmental encroachment into every facet of life, then you might try investigating real issues such as the the faux problem of climate change as a methodology to facilitate lifestyle micromanagement as well as globalization and the potential erosion of national sovereignty by justifying the establishment of superceding global authorities to overcome nation state dissent about consensus policies to be enacted in response to it. You might find issues far more compelling than whether or not Obama failed to place his hand over his heart during the nation anthem one day, or misunderstandings about a quote he made concerning Muslim populations in the US. Pending totalitarianism is not divined by peripheral issues and superficialities. Its potential rise is far more insidious, cunning and far reaching than the rather silly concerns which you've dwelled upon here.
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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:14 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:01 PM)
Where is all this coming from? I want to know too -- specifics. Otherwise, I'm afraid it all begins to sound like an attack of hysterics -- or else the fabricated accusations of one who is so convinced that this man must be removed from office that the end completely justifies the means (calumny, hyperbole, fearmongering, false witness, down and out lying). So just provide some examples, some instances, some reliable sources.

Just Google them Stoirmeil, that's how I found some. A photo of one time Obama didn't put his hand over his heart (and several subsequent occasions where he did) and a misunderstood quote about the number of Muslims in the US can be found by Googling a few pertinent key words.
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:18 PM
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QUOTE (Antwn @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:14 PM)
Just Google them Stoirmeil, that's how I found some. A photo of one time Obama didn't put his hand over his heart (and several subsequent occasions where he did) and a misunderstood quote about the number of Muslims in the US can be found by Googling a few pertinent key words.

No doubt you can find some of it that way. I would like the person making the accusations to tell me where she found (or how she derived) these things in the form they take here.
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:20 PM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 10-Aug-2009, 08:46 PM)
Government spending which results in generational debt done in the name of "saving" the US economy is an atrocity. It doesn't matter whatever other atrocity you compare it to, it still fits.

`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass


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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:21 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:18 PM)
No doubt you can find some of it that way. I would like the person making the accusations to tell me where she found (or how she derived) these things in the form they take here.

Fair enough.
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SCShamrock 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Antwn @ 11-Aug-2009, 02:37 PM)
Well, apparantly atrocities have been with us for a long time. They're neither an Obama invention nor permanent.

http://zfacts.com/p/318.html

I think its you who refuse to confront reality and are addicted to exaggeration and perhaps talk radio. The administration that got us into this mess was Bush. The mess fell into imminent disaster by greedy Wall St. Yet all the while you admonish people who critisized Bush for EVERYFRIGGINTHING while you in the same breath blame Obama for EVERYFRIGGINTHING. Congratulations on your accomplishment of no real insight, and conclusions drawn purely upon speculative paranoia. Fear not, you have a sympathetic sounding board here amongst those who will give you strokes and tell you how wise you are and how deplorable the situation is ad nauseum.

How very trite. You act as though I struck a nerve in you; that you may somehow feel targeted by an accusatory comment of "blaming bush." If the shoe fits, I suppose. I don't blame Obama for everything, only for taking a disgustingly horrid situation and making it exponentially worse in the name of "fixing" the problem. That's the part I turn your attention to, as you obviously cannot see it without help. For that I mourn the death of your conscious. But I see that Bush continues to be blamed, even after Onutso goes about the business of exacerbating every conceivable ill.

What's he supposed to do? You can't fix this kind of mess overnight!

I've heard this kind of banality till I'm sick of it. He campaigned on "Change." We're supposed to get change. The kind of change we're getting is not what you were hoping for Antwn, is it? Really, is it?

+The stimulus, if passed, was to assure the country would not get past 8% unemployment.
+AIG was too big to fail (never mind the fact that they oversee the retirement of countless bureaucrats).
+The Federal Reserve has been protected from any and all justifiable federal scrutiny.
+The auto industry got billions of our money, then were ripped to shreds.
+The most heinous bill in our nation's history has been proposed which, by all intents and purposes, will socialize our health care system beyond anything Karl Marx could have dreamed up, and paints the canvas of American citizens with ink made from Hitler's blood. Under such governmental control, politicians are effectively saying it is they who will decide what the code of health care will be; i.e., who deserves what care and when.
+The latest debacle, the nefarious Cash for Clunkers program, is yet another attempt to artificially stimulate a fledgling economy. It will end up costing us exponentially more than $4500/vehicle.
+Cap-and-trade legislation will not be the last nail in the coffin; it will be the dirt on our casket. Please, I beg you, refute that!

The list goes on and on, and in only a few short months. Shall I continue? I listened to the mantra for years: The failed policies of the Bush administration. Yes, I agree, Bush was not the greatest president in history. In my lifetime that honorable distinction goes to Ronald Reagan. However, any damage Bush did in his eight years as president pales in comparison to the propositions of the Obama administration. One thing I feel confident in: those who have so much faith in this sham of a president will rue the day he took office. Sadly, it will take ruin of epic proportion for everyone to wake up. That day is not far off. Until then……

puke.gif


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The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859

Education: that which reveals to the wise, and conceals from the stupid, the vast limits of their knowledge.
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SCShamrock 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:47 PM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:20 PM)
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

Ok then, Princess Brainy Britches, how's about you educate all us po little idgets what the word atrocity means so's we can uses it in the prp, er, um, coorec, uh, um, right way. How's about that?

Robert McGrady, Through the Bottom of my Beer Glass
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stoirmeil 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 07:55 PM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:47 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:20 PM)
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

Ok then, Princess Brainy Britches, how's about you educate all us po little idgets what the word atrocity means so's we can uses it in the prp, er, um, coorec, uh, um, right way. How's about that?

Robert McGrady, Through the Bottom of my Beer Glass

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Can you say "Princess Brainy Britches" ten times fast in a row without saying the word you really mean?
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Antwn 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 08:58 PM
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QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:41 PM)
How very trite. You act as though I struck a nerve in you; that you may somehow feel targeted by an accusatory comment of "blaming bush." If the shoe fits, I suppose. I don't blame Obama for everything, only for taking a disgustingly horrid situation and making it exponentially worse in the name of "fixing" the problem. That's the part I turn your attention to, as you obviously cannot see it without help. For that I mourn the death of your conscious. But I see that Bush continues to be blamed, even after Onutso goes about the business of exacerbating every conceivable ill.

If you look at the history of my posts, I've been most judicious in my critisism of Bush, your admonition is misplaced. My nerves are just fine and rumors of the death of my "conscious" are greatly exaggerated, as have been quite a few things on this thread.

Okay, your opinion of Obama's methods of fixing problems is low (understatement of the post wink.gif ). Fair enough. But if we're talking trite (your word) I think your comparisons to Marx and Hitler more fit that bill than anything I've said. The slaughter of 8 million Jews is comparable to multigenerational indebetedness? That's too absurd to spend the energy to refute. As the link I posted shows, multigenerational indebtedness has a long history in 20th century America and is far from being an Obama invention. That doesn't excuse it, but it points out a precedent which predates Obama. Unfortunately, no one will know the results of an alternative policy. Another large deficit occurred during the Reagan years which did not abate until Clinton, when everyone was trying to decide what to do with the surplus.

How is it possible to draw such pessimistic conclusions about an inchoate health care bill? You can't get a straight answer about its details, and when the attempt is made, its drowned out by screaming maniacs and Sarah Palin clones who believe in death panels. You'd think the entire country had turned into Bill O'Reilly. I wouldn't call the firing of an auto industry CEO ripping the auto industry to shreds. You want the guy to stay after bringing a company to bankruptcy? Why?

I will agree with you wholeheartedly about cap and trade. As you know, I believe AGW is fiction, yet McCain supported it as well, so whoever had been elected would have devised similar legislation, maybe not Waxman-Markey but similar. It follows and appeases international pressures and will probably prove an equal disaster as it has been for the EU countries which have adopted it already. The smart ones have been China and India who have rejected the approach. AGW adherents have gained too much political momentum. All the rest of us can do is point to the data from dissenting scientists and hope someone pays attention.
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stevenpd 
Posted: 11-Aug-2009, 09:03 PM
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QUOTE
Where is all this coming from?  I want to know too -- specifics.  Otherwise, I'm afraid it all begins to sound like an attack of hysterics -- or else the fabricated accusations of one who is so convinced that this man must be removed from office that the end completely justifies the means (calumny, hyperbole, fearmongering, false witness, down and out lying).  So just provide some examples, some instances, some reliable sources.


QUOTE
"He refuses to put his hand over his heart during the national anthem.....



U. S Code

TITLE 36 - PATRIOTIC AND NATIONAL OBSERVANCES, CEREMONIES, AND ORGANIZATIONS

Subtitle I - Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies

Part A - Observances and Ceremonies

CHAPTER 3 - Patriotic and National Observances and Ceremonies

QUOTE
§ 301. National anthem

      (a) Designation.— The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.
      (cool.gif Conduct During Playing.— During a rendition of the national anthem—
            (1) when the flag is displayed—
                  (A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;
QUOTE
He tells foreign governments that we are a muslim nation.....


New York Times: “And one of the points I want to make is, is that if you actually took the number of Muslim Americans, we’d be one of the largest Muslim countries in the world,” Mr. Obama said.

New York Times Reference

QUOTE
He is attempting to nationalize every major industry in the country so that he and his regime can control everything.....


World Net Daily: "In a major speech focused on Obama titled "Off and running: Opportunity of a lifetime," CPUSA leader Sam Webb also alleges Obama's administration is considering turning education, childcare, and health care into "no profit zones;" rerouting investment capital from military infrastructure to "green economy" projects and public infrastructure; and waging a "full scale" assault on global warming."

World Net Daily Reference

QUOTE
He is trying to control what we see, hear, and even what we think....."


Here is where I will interject a comment. Control over news and the stifling of thought can be so insidious that one would think that it is impossible to obtain anywhere outside socialist or communist countries but I think that there are numerous examples as evidenced by the current spat of town-hall meetings. I now point to the incident in St. Louis where there was actual violence that led to the arrest of six people.

When you have comments coming from POTUS and other members of Congress intended to discount any dissent, to actively limit who can attend and what comments can be asked smacks of a level of control on subjects that need and should be discussed. I do believe that the citizens of the United States have a fundamental right to be heard. Any activity that restricts such discussion is tantamount to infringement of constitutional rights.

Mother Jones: "Should President Obama have the power to shut down domestic Internet traffic during a state of emergency?

Senators John Rockefeller (D-W. Va.) and Olympia Snowe (R-Maine) think so. On Wednesday they introduced a bill to establish the Office of the National Cybersecurity Advisor—an arm of the executive branch that would have vast power to monitor and control Internet traffic to protect against threats to critical cyber infrastructure. That broad power is rattling some civil libertarians.

The Cybersecurity Act of 2009 (PDF) gives the president the ability to "declare a cybersecurity emergency" and shut down or limit Internet traffic in any "critical" information network "in the interest of national security." The bill does not define a critical information network or a cybersecurity emergency. That definition would be left to the president."


Mother Jones Reference

Current events are reminiscent of "1984" and Big Brother. It gives me a chill just to think about it.


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Patch 
Posted: 12-Aug-2009, 12:41 AM
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QUOTE (stevenpd @ 11-Aug-2009, 10:03 PM)


Current events are reminiscent of "1984" and Big Brother. It gives me a chill just to think about it.

Yes, we have arrived! It is amazing that any American can justify this.

Slàine,    

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SCShamrock 
Posted: 12-Aug-2009, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:55 PM)
QUOTE (SCShamrock @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:47 PM)
QUOTE (stoirmeil @ 11-Aug-2009, 07:20 PM)
`When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.'

Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking Glass

Ok then, Princess Brainy Britches, how's about you educate all us po little idgets what the word atrocity means so's we can uses it in the prp, er, um, coorec, uh, um, right way. How's about that?

Robert McGrady, Through the Bottom of my Beer Glass

smile.gif

Can you say "Princess Brainy Britches" ten times fast in a row without saying the word you really mean?

Nope, can't do it. I tried, but I didn't even make it once. biggrin.gif
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SCShamrock 
Posted: 12-Aug-2009, 07:07 AM
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Antwn,

It's just before time to go to work, so I have to be brief. The Marx reference I make is due to what I see and hear from Obama (I can actually think for myself, I don't need Fox or whatever):

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need. We both know where that line comes from. Do you really think Obama has not espoused this concept and is not trying to apply it to the point of saturation in his policies?

As for my Hitler comment, we all know how Hitler felt about thinning the herd. In the case of H.R.3200, we could well get a smattering of that concept as well.

QUOTE
The assault against seniors began with the stimulus package in February. Slipped into the bill was substantial funding for comparative effectiveness research, which is generally code for limiting care based on the patient's age. Economists are familiar with the formula, where the cost of a treatment is divided by the number of years (called QALYs, or quality-adjusted life years) that the patient is likely to benefit. In Britain, the formula leads to denying treatments for older patients who have fewer years to benefit from care than younger patients.


When comparative effectiveness research appeared in the stimulus bill, Rep. Charles Boustany Jr., (R., La.) a heart surgeon, warned that it would lead to "denying seniors and the disabled lifesaving care." He and Sen. Jon Kyl (R., Ariz.) proposed amendments to no avail that would have barred the federal government from using the research to eliminate treatments for the elderly or deny care based on age.


Story from WSJ

The "screaming maniacs and Sarah Palin clones" are not just crying wolf. They have valid reasons for their objections. Obama already pushed one bill on us via strongarm tactics. And while versions of the health care bill are available to us in one form or another, this in no way prevents a last minute vote in which we all will be forced to accept whatever the bureaucrats foist upon us. Many government health care proponents stupidly assert that "it works for Canada", but as Obama himself has stated, we will not get Canada's system. Looking solely at Obama's socialist views, we could easily get a Hitleresque health care bill to his desk which I have no doubt he would sign without hesitation.

Hey, I do have a compliment for Obama. I saw him do a p.s.a. about a week ago telling fathers to "be a dad." I liked that.

H.R. 3200 PDF
This is a large file, 1017 pages. It loaded in about 30 secs. on my computer...8Mb download speed.



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