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> Quotes Of The Founding Fathers, Insight into their hopes for the country
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Patch 
Posted: 27-Nov-2008, 03:33 PM
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Very true, they did have the foresight not to force any "one" religion on the US citizens.

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Antwn 
Posted: 28-Nov-2008, 01:51 PM
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"As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries."

Part of the Treaty of Tripoli, signed by Geo Washington, president at the time, called: "Treaty of peace and friendship between the United States of America and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli, of Barbary"

It seems that President Washington and the US State Department at the time did not believe that the US was founded on Christian precepts, in fact, that was the basis for the statement above. Moreover it is stated as a reason for peace between states whose religions differ - since the United States is not based in the Christian religion, there is "no pretext arising from religious opinions" that can be used to justify conflict. This is obviously seen as an asset the US has.

Ironic how perceptions change. In fact, there are far too many ironies in the fire these days.


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Patch 
Posted: 28-Nov-2008, 01:59 PM
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I do not believe a treaty determines the religious beliefs of those who founded and fought for this country.

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Antwn 
Posted: 28-Nov-2008, 04:33 PM
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Of course not, and no treaty does. Besides, the beliefs of the founders and the people in America at that time were varied, particularly if you include native americans tribes who fought for the revolution, i.e. fought for this country, even if their motives were not the same.

What the treaty does specify is a presupposition regarding the relationship between the US system of government and the Christian religion. Since treaties are drafted and negociated by members of the department of state and signed by the president (Washington at that time - who I think qualifies as a founder), it seems likely that the first sentence specifies their attitude, or why include it? In addition the words "in any sense" would seem to include Christian principles, in fact, that phrase is unequivocal.

A distinction is important here. The religion of those "who fought and founded this country" is not the same thing as the religion of the government of the United States, which of course doesn't exist since the government is decidedly secular. One can say the government is not founded on the Christian religion, as the sentence says, and still say that the religious beliefs of those who founded the country were predominately Christian.

As for the country being founded on Christian principles, it would be nice to see some evidence to that effect as opposed to mere statements, the definitive nature of which we're supposed to take on.....for lack of a better term - faith? I would like to know since I've heard this statement made many times, but no one has ever qualified it.
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Patch 
Posted: 28-Nov-2008, 04:58 PM
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We will just have to agree to disagree on this one.

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MacEoghainn 
Posted: 30-Nov-2008, 09:31 AM
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This one seems lost on some who go out of their way to prevent our service people votes from counting because they don't like the way they vote!

"When we assumed the Soldier, we did not lay aside the Citizen"

George Washington


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"Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt." Abraham Lincoln

"Igitur qui desiderat pacem, praeparet bellum." from "Epitoma Rei Militaris," by Vegetius

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coastman 
Posted: 01-Dec-2008, 04:37 PM
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Whether Democrat or Republican, we do not have any Statesman leading America. What we have are professional politicians.
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Patch 
Posted: 01-Dec-2008, 06:36 PM
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QUOTE (coastman @ 01-Dec-2008, 05:37 PM)
Whether Democrat or Republican, we do not have any Statesman leading America. What we have are professional politicians.

Or as I like to refer to them, "political parasites."

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Jillian 
Posted: 01-Dec-2008, 09:45 PM
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QUOTE (coastman @ 01-Dec-2008, 05:37 PM)
QUOTE
Whether Democrat or Republican, we do not have any Statesman leading America. What we have are professional politicians. 



QUOTE
Or as I like to refer to them, "political parasites."- Patch-


It's hard to fight or stand for something when you have everything. We the people are the only ones who have anything to stand and fight for.

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Patch 
Posted: 02-Dec-2008, 07:47 AM
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"The good Education of Youth has been esteemed by wise Men in all Ages, as the surest Foundation of the Happiness both of private Families and of Common-wealths. Almost all Governments have therefore made it a principal Object of their Attention, to establish and endow with proper Revenues, such Seminaries of Learning, as might supply the succeeding Age with Men qualified to serve the Publick with Honour to themselves, and to their Country."

--Benjamin Franklin, Proposals Relating to the Education of Youth in Pensilvania, 1749


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Patch 
Posted: 03-Dec-2008, 09:01 AM
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"To cherish and stimulate the activity of the human mind, by multiplying the objects of enterprise, is not among the least considerable of the expedients, by which the wealth of a nation may be promoted."

--Alexander Hamilton, Report on Manufactures, December, 1791


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Patch 
Posted: 04-Dec-2008, 07:49 AM
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"But with respect to future debt; would it not be wise and just for that nation to declare in the constitution they are forming that neither the legislature, nor the nation itself can validly contract more debt, than they may pay within their own age, or within the term of 19 years."

--Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, 6 September 1789

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Antwn 
Posted: 04-Dec-2008, 12:40 PM
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“If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” - James Madison

There is no maxim, in my opinion, which is more liable to be misapplied, and which, therefore, more needs elucidation, than the current one, that the interest of the majority is the political standard of right and wrong” - James Madison

Since the general civilization of mankind, I believe there are more instances of the abridgment of the freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments of those in power than by violent and sudden usurpation” - James Madison

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Jillian 
Posted: 04-Dec-2008, 06:20 PM
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"Hold on, my friends, to the Constitution and to the Republic for which it stands. Miracles do not cluster, and what has happened once in 6000 years, may not happen again. Hold on to the Constitution, for if the American Constitution should fail, there will be anarchy throughout the world."

- Daniel Webster-


"In questions of power, then, let no more be heard of confidence in man, but bind him down from mischief by the chains of the Constitution."

- Thomas Jefferson -
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Patch 
Posted: 05-Dec-2008, 08:28 AM
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"There is not a more important and fundamental principle in legislation, than that the ways and means ought always to face the public engagements; that our appropriations should ever go hand in hand with our promises. To say that the United States should be answerable for twenty-five millions of dollars without knowing whether the ways and means can be provided, and without knowing whether those who are to succeed us will think with us on the subject, would be rash and unjustifiable. Sir, in my opinion, it would be hazarding the public faith in a manner contrary to every idea of prudence."

--James Madison, Speech in Congress, 22 April 1790

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