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> Barack Obama Campaign, Discussion of the grassroots campaign
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Camac
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 07:19 AM
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gwenlee;

You are to be commended and applauded for what you did. When I said a little socialism wouldn't hurt I am not alking about the type that is certain Northern European Nations have. I'm talking about what we have. It is sort of semi-socoalism ( if I can use the term). I guess the main part is that we have Universal Health care and of course welfare for those in need (which is abused) We also have Government regulation the type that prevented our banking system from melting down and our Housing Mortgages from exploding. Our Education system is cheaper because of Government subsities and our criminal law is National not Provincial or as in your case different in each State. Maybe the best term to use is Social-Capitalism or controlled Capitalism.

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John Clements 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:31 AM
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gwenlee;
There is no doubt that you are to be commended for working hard, but then most of us do. When it comes to the constitution, (as far as Iím concerned) it was a hypocritical document before the ink dried, because this country wouldnít have become what it is, (or should I say what it could be), if it werenít for slavery. I mean any business is bound to succeed if it doesnít have to pay someone to do the work, which is exactly why all our jobs are being outsourced, as we speak. You know the definition of unrestricted capitalism is fascism, and Iíll take a little socialism over fascism any day.
When you get right down to it, the real ďMother Land" is Africa, which from my point of view, makes us all brothers and sisters.
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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:36 AM
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Thank you Patch and Camac. Yes I have taught my children those values and they live it.

I am not a heartless person. But I think we need to encourage people to take care of themselves. I don't have a problem with providing health care for the working poor, but they need to be out working not sitting on their bums. I don't think that people should keep having children that they can't support, I hate people taking advantage of the system. My spouse use to work for a concrete company that had drivers that would turn down a job because they would loose their medicaid and food stamps. My gosh these men had the tools to support their family and they chose not too (the company had health insurance).
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Camac
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:55 AM
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gwenlee;
People who take advantage of the system really gall me. We instituted a program here in Ontario called "Workfare" a person on welfare has to work a certain proscribe number of hours at minium wage ($6.85/hr) in order to collect public assisstance. To some extent it cut down on the abuse but not entirely as people always figure away around the rules.No system is perfect. Again you are to be commended.

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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:59 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 21-Oct-2008, 10:55 AM)
gwenlee;
People who take advantage of the system really gall me. We instituted a program here in Ontario called "Workfare" a person on welfare has to work a certain proscribe number of hours at minium wage ($6.85/hr) in order to collect public assisstance. To some extent it cut down on the abuse but not entirely as people always figure away around the rules.No system is perfect. Again you are to be commended.

Camac.

Why can't people here agree to such a program? I do believe that the majority of people would go for such a program.
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Camac
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 10:04 AM
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gwenlee;

It took a Conservative (Republican style) Provincial Gov. to introduce it as the N.D.P. (New Democratic Party ie. Socialist) fought it tooth and nail. So did the Liberals to some extent. (Currying votes). I'm a Liberal (Dem). and I was in favour of it. Damn good idea when it works properly.

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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 01:16 PM
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I don't think that slavery is the only reason for where we are at as a country. That its success or lack of is because of slavery. Slavery was one of the issues that the founding fathers struggled with and an issue that we had to come to terms with. Out sourcing of our jobs is horrible. But consumers are also to blame for this . They wanted the cheapest. If we want to talk about slavery or low wages perhaps we should start a new topic. We aren't a perfect nation and I think we are going through some growing pain but for all our faults the number one place I would want to live in is here in the USA. My second choice is Alaska. Oh yeah that is the USA LOL, so I guess I'll stay in the USA and weather what ever the storm brings. And even though I may not like the person who holds the office of the president I will give him the respect due him.


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John Clements 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 01:48 PM
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Slavery may not be the only reason for the success weíve had, itís only the main reason we got off to such a good start, and itís still going on, in one form or another. The founding fathers sure knew what side the butter was on. Let me ask right out. Did you vote for Bush, and is so, (which I suspect is) just how do you feel about it now? And since Obama is a black man, I think slavery and the feeling of entitlement is relevant. I also respect the ďpersonĒ not the title. Thatís what makes the world go round.
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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 06:12 PM
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What does entitlement have to do with Obama. Are you saying he is entitled to the presidency because he is black/white? And are your saying that people who don't vote for him will be racist? I have no problems with a persons race. I am married to a Puerto Rician/Panamanian, my brother in law is Native American, I have 2 biracial god children my personal MD is black, my insurance agent for the past 20 years is black, my lawyer is black, my dentist is black, my father is Jewish, I have Native American ancestry. I have Japanese aunt by marriage. I think you get the picture. My son once said that it would be hard for us to be prejudice because we would then have to hate ourselves. I admire people who don't sit back and blame their lack of advancement/success on others. I admire people who make it happen. My father in law worked 3 jobs to support his family of 8 children, he turned down assistance, when the kids were old enough to work they worked, brought their check home to their mother. She then put some in a savings for them and gave them some pocket money and then the rest went to the household needs. One brother in law graduated from UGA and the other from Georgia Tech both on an army ROTC scholarship. Another served in the Navy. One of my sister in law has her own successful business employing a sister. No one is entitled to anything.

Yes I voted for Bush. Yes I am unhappy with the directions that this country has headed. Is it all his fault? No!! We voted for change 2 years ago and now have a democratic controlled house and senate things still haven't changed. We are still spinning our wheels. We can't fix people, life isn't alway fair. When the people and government realize that we can go forward.

Okay I am done with this subject.
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MacFive 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (gwenlee @ 21-Oct-2008, 06:12 PM)
I have no problems with a persons race. I am married to a Puerto Rician/Panamanian, my brother in law is Native American, I have 2 biracial god children my personal MD is black, my insurance agent for the past 20 years is black, my lawyer is black, my dentist is black, my father is Jewish, I have Native American ancestry. I have Japanese aunt by marriage. I think you get the picture. My son once said that it would be hard for us to be prejudice because we would then have to hate ourselves.

God bless you! You are a true American! smile.gif

While this is a little off topic, I have to agree with you about President Bush. He is getting the blame for everything when in fact it is everyones fault. 1 man did not bring down the entire world wide financial system. He is just an easy target because he is unpopular right now.

I do believe Republicians needs to redefine themselves. I think it was a mistake for McCain to be the Republican contender - in my opinion Mitt Romney would have been a better choice.

But this thing called Obama might be too big for either of them to handle. My first reaction when I heard McCain was going to win the republican race was that Obama would win the presidential race.

And if he wins I will be more than happy to see how and what he does. As someone who leans more to the conservative side that is a big step to take. But clearly to much power has been given to the corporations in this country and it is time to rein them in.

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Jillian 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 07:53 PM
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Gwenlee,
...hats off to ya. I too have worked 2 jobs and put myself through undergrad and graduate school...having had a serious operation during that time and going into debt...getting help from family and working my arse off...I paid it off.

I have worked in behavioral health and crisis outreach...the people I saw daily had more than I had...and they were receiving government assistance. There is an entitlement attitude and I'm tired of it too. I believe in helping those who are willing to do what they can to earn it. No one should receive something for nothing unless it's love. It is devastating to their self-esteem and self-respect to begin with. The adjudicated youth I worked with always said they were glad I was caring w/them but made them work for everything. They earned it...and they felt good about it. It's okay not having everything you think you should have, and that is not including the necessities. I agree, unrestrained capitalism has created havoc and needs regulation, but not increasing taxes to fund socialistic style programs that often are wasteful w/money because government needs a beaurocracy to run anything.

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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 08:19 PM
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I too was disappointed that McCain got the nomination. I was for Mitt Romney. Both parties need to redefine themselves.

Jillian and everyone else who worked hard to get where you are at with out expecting a hand out. Take a bow and pat yourself on the back. I too salute you. usaflag.gif You are what makes the USA great. Just because we are tired of entitlements don't mean we are against helping those in need. It goes back to the saying give a man a fish he will eat for a day, but teach him to fish...

I truly love my country. I am hoping when this election is over that people are going to put their political differences a side and do what is in the best interest of our nation.

Okay, so I'm not finished with this subject. I have been called opinionated.
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John Clements 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:13 PM
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QUOTE (gwenlee @ 21-Oct-2008, 06:12 PM)
What does entitlement have to do with Obama. Are you saying he is entitled to the presidency because he is black/white? And are your saying that people who don't vote for him will be racist? I have no problems with a persons race. I am married to a Puerto Rician/Panamanian, my brother in law is Native American, I have 2 biracial god children my personal MD is black, my insurance agent for the past 20 years is black, my lawyer is black, my dentist is black, my father is Jewish, I have Native American ancestry. I have Japanese aunt by marriage. I think you get the picture. My son once said that it would be hard for us to be prejudice because we would then have to hate ourselves. I admire people who don't sit back and blame their lack of advancement/success on others. I admire people who make it happen. My father in law worked 3 jobs to support his family of 8 children, he turned down assistance, when the kids were old enough to work they worked, brought their check home to their mother. She then put some in a savings for them and gave them some pocket money and then the rest went to the household needs. One brother in law graduated from UGA and the other from Georgia Tech both on an army ROTC scholarship. Another served in the Navy. One of my sister in law has her own successful business employing a sister. No one is entitled to anything.

Yes I voted for Bush. Yes I am unhappy with the directions that this country has headed. Is it all his fault? No!! We voted for change 2 years ago and now have a democratic controlled house and senate things still haven't changed. We are still spinning our wheels. We can't fix people, life isn't alway fair. When the people and government realize that we can go forward.

Okay I am done with this subject.

OkÖOkÖSo your not a raciest, and you work hard, but although the democrats have a majority in the house and senate they donít have enough votes to be veto proof, which is why they are still stifled. And letís not forget Joe Leibermen. Now were done.
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gwenlee 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:25 PM
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JC folks like you keep folks like me on our toes. I would gladly sit down with you and have a cup of coffee and enjoy a good conversation. You're okay. thumbs_up.gif
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MacFive 
Posted: 21-Oct-2008, 09:58 PM
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We have a saying in the church I go to, "We give a hand up, not a hand out"

I really hope that everyone just puts aside these nasty accusations on both sides of the isle. Its almost as if you are either born a republican or democrat which results in a life long bashing of the other party. I hear people bashing Sarah Palin from things they have heard on the internet. Not just disagreements politically, but down right nasty stuff that is personal.

I have to say that from watching Obama he does not seem to be doing alot of bashing directly, unless his henchmen are!
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