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MacFive 
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 07:59 PM
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I think it is hard to imagine, atleast it is for me, to understand the current economic conditions and what it all means.

One thing is for sure, we are at a pivitol point in this crisis. If you recall during the great stock market crash of 1929 that lead to the Great Depression, people where jumping from buildings after losing everything. They did not have any real time to think about it, it just happened.

I don't think we can comprehend what would happen to our economy if it were to take a 30 trillion dollar hit. All of our jobs, businesses and commerce are inter-connected. If our economy starts to melt down it is going to be like a feed back loop that intensifies until this massive correction in our markets is completed.

One thing is for sure, we are currently dangling from the ledge and what happens next is anyones guess. Start stuffing your cashing in the mattress!

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Camac
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 08:05 PM
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MacFive;

One thing wrong with the mattress stuffing scenario, the money will be worthless.

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flora 
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 08:27 PM
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Guess that is the reason the price of Gold has sky rocketed.

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MacFive 
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 08:40 PM
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Ok, it sounds like the life line is being thrown. Just watched the President's speech and the Democratic response and I have to say that truly the Democrats and Republicans are coming together to address the issue.

Obama and McCain will be at the Whitehouse tomorrow with Congressional leaders so possibly something big will happen tomorrow.

Isn't it nice to see Democrats and Republicans working together to help save the country. Maybe a new age is dawning of working together instead of the fingering pointing that I am sure everyone is sick of hearing.

One thing is for sure, the days of trickle down policies and deregulation are over. Let's just hope their plan works and that perhaps they might realize that working together is better than not working at all!

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Patch 
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 08:43 PM
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Dollars will become worthless and maybe are very close to that today.

There will always be something of value. Precious metals come to mind first. However, there are not adequate amounts of those, and it will be hard to spend them. As we flood the global market with our faux dollars, most material items will quickly be priced out of sight. Energy will be one of the first. A lot of the energy cost today is due to our practice of "printing" money. Everything that has happened in the last 7 years was done for a reason and not necessarily what we THOUGHT the reason was. It may all soon become evident.

In 1929, people were more self sufficient and there were many less of us than there are today. Crime today will run rampant. We may have to decide whether our own families lives and welfare are more important than the lives and welfare of others. Those will be tough decisions.

Our foreign enemies, and there are many, now control our destiny thanks to politicians on both sides.

In "29" we were on the gold standard monetarily, we were not in debt, we had industry and natural resources. Today we have none of those. It certainly does not bode well!!!

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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Jillian 
Posted: 24-Sep-2008, 10:02 PM
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Patch,

You said it all. One of the Vietnam veterans I worked w/a couple of months ago said the same thing back then. He told me to watch my back and buy a gun or 10. I'm looking into that now.

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MacFive 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 12:27 AM
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I think that is the perception, that foreign countries are pulling the strings, but seriously, without the U.S. economy which supports 2/3's of the world, the World would cease to exist as it is today.

China, for instance, would fall apart without our commerce. Think of all of the jobs we provide to people in India, Ireland, and a host of other countries. All of those oil dollars going to the mid-east and other oil producing countries making them rich and in turn building cities from the desert.

This continuation of exporting the America ideals to the world started with Abraham Lincoln and continues today. The world has changed because of America - because of Freedom and democracy (even though America is technically a Republic).

Maybe we all need a good scare with these financial turmoils. Maybe we all need to save more and spend less. Take a lesson from our Grandparents and G-Grandparents and make due with what we have. We were giddy with the Dot Com bust, we over reacted to the 9/11 attacks and perhaps we will now mature because of these experiences as a country. We definitely need to purge this country of greed through regulations and hold people accountable for their actions.

America has always been more of an idea, than anything else. And with our ideas and people working together we can solve all of these problems. I know that people might take exception to this post, especially from those who think that we think we are superior to other countries - but that is not the intent. I think that as a young country we are learning and continue to find our place in the world.

While President Bush has some of the lowest ratings of a President, he did what the President of the U.S. should do - he provided leadership in a time of crisis. I saw tonight a man putting aside his convictions, not laying blame on anyone and focused on one goal - fixing this problem. The solutions he is proposing run contrary to his beliefs of less government. He is also taking the unprecedent step of inviting both candidates to the White House tomorrow as a show of solidarity on this issue.

Even though a majority of the public opinion polls show disapproval for the 700 billion bailout plan, it is one of the strengths of our republic to enable the great decisions to people capable of making those decisions. I really believe that in this case not acting could result in something far worse than has ever been experienced.

I think what the American people should demand is Republicians and Democrats working together more closely to get things done. My hope is that with the failure of trickle down economics and deregulation that it will become clearer for both parties what the right thing to do is and to stop pointing the finger at each other and move forward on a brighter future for all.






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MacFive 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 12:35 AM
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I forgot to post this link to a good article on "what if" the bailout did not happen (last weeks bailout) and leading to this weeks bailout:

http://www.usnews.com/blogs/capital-commer...ression-20.html

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Patch 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 06:30 AM
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The problem has now gone beyond the sub prime melt down. Inflation, Credit card debt and even auto loans. Credit is full of bad debt throughout the industry. Not bush nor McCain nor Obama or even the legislature can control it now. I argued for 7 years that the bridge was out down the track but the train never slowed. For that, bush and his cabinet get the blame. They forced states to go along with the fed plan of unlimited prosperity. Yesterday bush said that we were operating under 100 year old laws. Again, a lie. After the crash of 1929 the laws involving investments were rewritten. In the last 7 years all of the safeguards placed after 29 and a few in place before were scrapped many by executive order. This allowed the illusion of prosperity and hid the failings of NAFTA and some of our other treaties.

The bail out was proposed by a FAILED Wall Street CEO who got 18 M plus in severance and was appointed as treasurysecretary as bush can not get qualified people as advisors.

No one knows the true extent of the crisis and respected economists believe it is actually trillions! We can not borrow the money now, We can not raise in taxes so we print it.

We would be better off subsidizing energy and stocking food pantries and soup kitchens!

Those who place their trust in the govt now have seriously misplaced same.

Slàinte,    

Patch

"The Keating five included McCain and a Bush"    

PS I didnt have time to spell check.    
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Camac
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 07:13 AM
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"Those who fail to learn from History,are doomed to repeat it."


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John Clements 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 08:46 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 25-Sep-2008, 07:13 AM)
"Those who fail to learn from History,are doomed to repeat it."


Camac.

Hi Dave;
You know recently I revised that expression.
History is doomed to repeat itself, whether we know it or not.
Love you man,
JC
PS: I think I’ll go and do some work with my hands now, cause me head hurts from all this stuff.


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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 11:50 AM
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Was just listening to a song from when I was a bit younger; Wall Street Blues by Procol Harum. Maybe Paul can scare up a copy and put it in the play list; call it mood music.

Paul, I don't think the days of deregulation are over. Sure, those folks will keep a low profile for a couple years, but in a decade they'll all be back with their fly high schemes that are built on air. The country will grow to love greed again and in another fifty years or so, we'll be right back, probably a lot less than fifty. During the Savings and Loan debacle of the eighties, the government was going to "get tough" with the high flyers. You see how long it lasted. By the way, an interesting chapter from that era to look up and read about is the Keating Five. Sometimes I wonder if the country as a whole has a memory any longer than that of a flea.


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Patch 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 05:02 PM
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There are too many "sheep" who want someone to fix everything and they will blindly follow anyone who promises them something.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

"The Keating five included McCain and a Bush"    
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TheCarolinaScotsman 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 05:26 PM
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State employees in North Carolina may be getting ready to be srewed. The state treasurer says he'll chip in a "significant portion" of the state's $75 billion dollar retirement fund to help with the Wall St. bailout, in return for a "guaranteed interest rate" How do you get a guaranteed interest from a bankrupt company?
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Patch 
Posted: 25-Sep-2008, 05:31 PM
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You can not!! Most retirement systems will take a hit no matter what is done!

Slàinte,    

Patch    

"The Keating five included McCain and a Bush"    
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