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> Slavery Through History., What is its origins?
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 21-Jul-2008, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 18-Jul-2008, 10:06 AM)
QUOTE (Patch @ 17-Jul-2008, 02:48 PM)
Most came in poverty and had no choice.  The biggest hurdle was when they arrived.  If they were ill, at best they were quarantined and at worst they would be sent back.  If they had no money to pay for a ticket the were shipped home like animals.   None found America to be the land of "milk and honey."  It sure must have felt like slavery. 

Slàinte,    

Patch    

There is no denying that new working class or poor immigrants to North America a hundred years ago had a rough go of it but it was not slavery. Drudgery and exploitation yes. Labour Laws were either non-existent or inaffective and employers could and did get away with murder. The main difference though was that the immigrants had the freedom of movement. They could look for better , if any, employment and had some standing with the law. These are denied to a slave. A slave exists only at the whim of his or her master. They were under the Law, property. A good horse had more worth than them. An immigrants children were born free and had the opportunity of schooling. A slaves child was just another commodity that could be sold or worked. I am not minimizing the conditons which immigrants lived and worked under and yes to many it felt like slavery but in comparison to a slave their lives, as such, were better.


Camac.

I have to agree with Camac here for there was a difference with the working class of those days which I am not saying that it was nice.
But contrary to slavery in which slaves did not get paid for their work, the only benefit they would get in return would of been nourishment from his or her master and then again meal would not come every day and 3 times a day.
A slave would not have a day off. Contrary to the working class that,at the time would have at least a day off where one could do as one wish.

Yes Patch, our ancestors did not have an easy life, work was a real part of life.
And work hard for that matter.Today we do work but I would say work is not as physically demanding as in those days.
Most or a lot work by choice because we are a materialistic society,we want always more and more.So in a way we kind of becomes slaves of our own doing for some.

I have read stories that in Scotland and England and even here in Nova Scotia that during the big mining era, kids would go under and work 12-15 hours days shift pulling coal that were piled up on a weel baril of some kind on their hands and knees all day. Some would just die of exaustion or suffocation in the mines for there was no air to breathe and the temperature very hot and humid. And they were paid pittance for their work if they were paid at all for some. I learned that while visiting a mine in Sydney and when our guide described this horrendous story about kids slavery you should have heard the comments and the faces of people.
All were appalled by the story. But like I said history of manking is not a pretty picture sometimes and slavery and it's history is one of them.

LOA


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Patch 
Posted: 21-Jul-2008, 10:07 PM
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I am not trying to belittle slavery and strongly believe that NO human should be owned by another. History in America indicates though that most (not all) slaves were treated better than those employed in the jobs of the 1800's. A slave was a major monetary investment and mistreatment put the investment at risk. My grandmother told how her father worked 7 days a week and 14 or 15 hours a day. He would get up very early to attend mass on Sunday morning and go from there to work. If an employee became ill or died many were waiting to fill the job. Most employers cared little. My great grandfather died at either 36 or 37. My grandmothers brother then became the main bread winner. The two females continued to wash clothes. The brother died in his 30's and my great grandmother lived with my grandmother and grandfather. My grandfather was a farmer and they worked from morning till night but it was still an easier life. I read a lot about slavery and the civil war (not truly what the war was fought over) as my family split over the issues of the time. My branch of the family left the Valley and the Southern sympathizers stayed. My part of the family changed the spelling of our name so we would not be associated with the Southern branch and they were probably glad we did. We have visited since of course but not a lot. It is a interesting subject and there is much information/dis-information about it. I believe the worst of the treatment of African Americans came at the hands of General Forrest's "social club" after the war and in more recent times.

Slàinte,    

Patch    
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John Clements 
Posted: 22-Jul-2008, 06:56 AM
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We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale.

JC


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Camac
Posted: 22-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM
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QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 06:56 AM)
We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale.

JC

JC; I agree in one way or another we are all slaves either to our work our life or our passions. The great thing about that type of slavery is there is always the choice of walking away from it. Those who were bound in slavery never had a choice even for something as simple as what to eat or drink. Many might think they are working in slavery but believe me the real thing is still out there and thriving and there is no pay scale.

Camac.


               
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John Clements 
Posted: 22-Jul-2008, 10:14 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 22-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 06:56 AM)
We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale.

JC

JC; I agree in one way or another we are all slaves either to our work our life or our passions. The great thing about that type of slavery is there is always the choice of walking away from it. Those who were bound in slavery never had a choice even for something as simple as what to eat or drink. Many might think they are working in slavery but believe me the real thing is still out there and thriving and there is no pay scale.

Camac.

Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife.
Coffee brake is over, catch you later,
JC
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 22-Jul-2008, 05:39 PM
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QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 11:14 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 22-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 06:56 AM)
We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale.

JC

JC; I agree in one way or another we are all slaves either to our work our life or our passions. The great thing about that type of slavery is there is always the choice of walking away from it. Those who were bound in slavery never had a choice even for something as simple as what to eat or drink. Many might think they are working in slavery but believe me the real thing is still out there and thriving and there is no pay scale.

Camac.

Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife.
Coffee brake is over, catch you later,
JC

Oh! That's your job to do man,convice the wife. wink.gif

QUOTE
Coffee brake
two words that the slaves did not know the meaning of.

At least for us in our "modern slavery" we do get coffe brakes or cigarette brakes or whatever you want to call it.And even though we don't all earn the same salaries. Us, that works and earns money if managed properly even if little, we manage to be able to buy some food.

Which the slaves did not possess that privilege to do and that most of us actually take for granted.

P.S.:When I say we and us I'm speaking in the general term,of course.


LOA
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John Clements 
Posted: 22-Jul-2008, 09:15 PM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 22-Jul-2008, 05:39 PM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 11:14 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 22-Jul-2008, 09:42 AM)
QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 06:56 AM)
We’re all slaves, (when you get right down to it). The only difference being the pay scale.

JC

JC; I agree in one way or another we are all slaves either to our work our life or our passions. The great thing about that type of slavery is there is always the choice of walking away from it. Those who were bound in slavery never had a choice even for something as simple as what to eat or drink. Many might think they are working in slavery but believe me the real thing is still out there and thriving and there is no pay scale.

Camac.

Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife.
Coffee brake is over, catch you later,
JC

Oh! That's your job to do man,convice the wife. wink.gif

two words that the slaves did not know the meaning of.

At least for us in our "modern slavery" we do get coffe brakes or cigarette brakes or whatever you want to call it.And even though we don't all earn the same salaries. Us, that works and earns money if managed properly even if little, we manage to be able to buy some food.

Which the slaves did not possess that privilege to do and that most of us actually take for granted.

P.S.:When I say we and us I'm speaking in the general term,of course.


LOA

Boy…make one little joke, (without one of those little funny faces), and right away you get jump on.

I know it’s my job to convince the wife. In fact she once said… “You know...I would be convinced, if you hadn’t convinced me”.
(I thought it was funny then, and I still do.)

Have a good night LOA,
JC
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 23-Jul-2008, 05:40 AM
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QUOTE (John Clements @ 22-Jul-2008, 10:15 PM)
Camac. [/QUOTE]
Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife.
Coffee brake is over, catch you later,
JC [/QUOTE]
Oh! That's your job to do man,convice the wife. wink.gif

two words that the slaves did not know the meaning of.

At least for us in our "modern slavery" we do get coffe brakes or cigarette brakes or whatever you want to call it.And even though we don't all earn the same salaries. Us, that works and earns money if managed properly even if little, we manage to be able to buy some food.

Which the slaves did not possess that privilege to do and that most of us actually take for granted.

P.S.:When I say we and us I'm speaking in the general term,of course.


LOA [/QUOTE]
Boy…make one little joke, (without one of those little funny faces), and right away you get jump on.

I know it’s my job to convince the wife. In fact she once said… “You know...I would be convinced, if you hadn’t convinced me”.
(I thought it was funny then, and I still do.)

Have a good night LOA,
JC

Mornin' JC.

I did not jump on you or your joke. But sometimes in your writings you are subtle and one can misinterprete your real meaning.If it's joke or not.
If I offended in any way I apologize. My post wasn't meant to jump on you at all.

Have a great day! LOA
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John Clements 
Posted: 23-Jul-2008, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 23-Jul-2008, 05:40 AM)
Absolutely correct Camac, but would please explain it to the wife.
Coffee brake is over, catch you later,
JC [/QUOTE]
Oh! That's your job to do man,convice the wife. wink.gif

two words that the slaves did not know the meaning of.

At least for us in our "modern slavery" we do get coffe brakes or cigarette brakes or whatever you want to call it.And even though we don't all earn the same salaries. Us, that works and earns money if managed properly even if little, we manage to be able to buy some food.

Which the slaves did not possess that privilege to do and that most of us actually take for granted.

P.S.:When I say we and us I'm speaking in the general term,of course.


LOA [/QUOTE]
Boy…make one little joke, (without one of those little funny faces), and right away you get jump on.

I know it’s my job to convince the wife. In fact she once said… “You know...I would be convinced, if you hadn’t convinced me”.
(I thought it was funny then, and I still do.)

Have a good night LOA,
JC [/QUOTE]
Mornin' JC.

I did not jump on you or your joke. But sometimes in your writings you are subtle and one can misinterprete your real meaning.If it's joke or not.
If I offended in any way I apologize. My post wasn't meant to jump on you at all.

Have a great day! LOA

No problem LOA, I am pretty thick skinned, (especially the skin on my skull), where at times it can be impenetrable. Anyway I am totally aware of just horrible, and insidious slavery is. In fact I would choose death over slavery, any day.
Take care,
JC
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Camac
Posted: 23-Jul-2008, 09:54 AM
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JC.
I admire your choice of death before slavery. I on the other hand would choose slavery for the mere fact that by doing so I remain alive to cause harm to the enslavers. Hopefull having a full measure of revenge before they are forced to terminate me.


Camac
               
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John Clements 
Posted: 24-Jul-2008, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 23-Jul-2008, 09:54 AM)
JC.
I admire your choice of death before slavery. I on the other hand would choose slavery for the mere fact that by doing so I remain alive to cause harm to the enslavers. Hopefull having a full measure of revenge before they are forced to terminate me.


Camac

What do I have to do quote Patrick Henry? It’s a “given” that I would die fighting against slavery. But then, I’ve bee guilty of telling people things they already know too. So thanks for covering all the bases, just incase.

Later…I have to go “protest” now…

JC
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Camac
Posted: 24-Jul-2008, 10:08 AM
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QUOTE (John Clements @ 24-Jul-2008, 09:06 AM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 23-Jul-2008, 09:54 AM)
JC.
I admire your choice of death before slavery. I on the other hand would choose slavery for the mere fact that by doing so I remain alive to cause harm to the enslavers. Hopefull having a full measure of revenge before they are forced to terminate me.


Camac

What do I have to do quote Patrick Henry? It’s a “given” that I would die fighting against slavery. But then, I’ve bee guilty of telling people things they already know too. So thanks for covering all the bases, just incase.

Later…I have to go “protest” now…

JC

JC.
If you are referring to "Give me Liberty or give me Death" That is a rather selfish statement for if you are dead you can no longer fight for Liberty and those who would oppress have won. There is an old adage "He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day."


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 24-Jul-2008, 06:35 PM
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On the subject of slavery one question comes to mind.
What was the role of slave women? I did find something interesting about the role of slave women. Here is a bit of excerpt from a book abut the story of Harriet Jacobs who was a slave woman.

Harriet Jacobs:Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl
Slavery was a horrible institution that dehumanized a race of people. Female slave bondage was different from that of men. It wasn't less severe, but it was different. The sexual abuse, child bearing, and child care responsibilities affected the females's pattern of resistance and how they conducted their lives. Harriet Jacobs' Incidents in the Life of a Slave Girl, demonstrates the different role that women slaves had and the struggles that were caused from having to cope with sexual abuse.

And this is another interesting writing about the master and her slave.

Recent DNA test results that have concluded that the Nation's third president, Thomas Jefferson fathered at least one child, Eston Hemings, with his slave, Sally Hemings. The study has shed new light on the aged debate, forcing society and historians to recognize what had previously been ignored. Although America is obsessed with race, our society does not recognize the central role slavery has played in the nation's development. The continued and persistent effort to separate and distinguish the two races does not correspond to the reality of a complicated mixture of cultures in our history.

If the results of the DNA test are the markers of a new period of recognition for many in our society, does this mean the downfall of the status of those leaders such as Thomas Jefferson? We were already aware of Jefferson's hypocrisies involving his idealistic writing of the Declaration of Independence, and his ownership of slaves. Does his relationship with Hemings further taint his accomplishments? If Thomas Jefferson was the "Founding Father" of our country, does that make Sally Hemings the "Mother"? Perhaps he can be viewed now as more human and less as the epitome of equality and morality, which he quite obviously was not.


The suffering these women must have endured is simply unimaginable but what is the difference with what some women even today must endure in comparison of that time. If I think for example the muslim women that simply have no say in anything and gets much abuse from men. At from what we read and see is true these women are simply modern slaves. Or if I think of women forced into prostitution again this is modern slavery.

LOA
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Camac
Posted: 24-Jul-2008, 07:14 PM
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LOA;

The role of women in slavery was the same as any women of the era in which t
slavery existed. . It is only since the 20th century that women started getting the freedoms and rights they deserved. A woman before then was chattle. It wasn't until 1929 I believe that women in Canada obtained the legal status of being a person.

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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 24-Jul-2008, 07:23 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 24-Jul-2008, 08:14 PM)
LOA;

It is only since the 20th century that women started getting the freedoms and rights they deserved. A woman before then was chattle. It wasn't  until 1929 I believe that women in Canada obtained the legal status of being a person.

Camac.

And a good thing there was some with backbones enough to bang bangin.gif some sense in the head of those stubborn men that we are all one and the same.

ranting.gif ranting.gif ranting.gif ranting.gif


Aaaah!I feel better.smile.gif LOA
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