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> Slavery Through History., What is its origins?
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Mailagnas maqqas Dunaidonas 
Posted: 13-Jul-2008, 07:02 PM
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There are many passages in the Bible which have been used to argue that God meant for some people to be enslaved. For example,
QUOTE
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.

Colossians 3:22 (New International Version).


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 15-Jul-2008, 08:17 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 12-Jul-2008, 06:39 PM)
LOA.

Believe me when I say that the Cavemen practiced slavery, especially when it came to women of other tribes.


Camac.

If nothing was recorded at that time, on what then do you think the scientists assumes that slavery was practice during the stone age?

Maybe it was just an assumption that the people at the time would use women of other tribes as slaves. Or was it in reality just for the men to have a sort of harem in their tribes?

Most of the times historians are writing history only on superficial facts and then after some years they find their mistakes and rewrite everything even human evolution.

LOA


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Camac
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 09:00 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 15-Jul-2008, 08:17 PM)
QUOTE (Camac @ 12-Jul-2008, 06:39 PM)
LOA.

Believe me when I say that the Cavemen practiced slavery, especially when it came to women of other tribes.


Camac.

If nothing was recorded at that time, on what then do you think the scientists assumes that slavery was practice during the stone age?

Maybe it was just an assumption that the people at the time would use women of other tribes as slaves. Or was it in reality just for the men to have a sort of harem in their tribes?

Most of the times historians are writing history only on superficial facts and then after some years they find their mistakes and rewrite everything even human evolution.

LOA

LOA;

There is assumption that slavery was practiced in pre-recorded time and there is also evidence in the skeletons recovered from ancient sites. By comparing the bones of a group of individuals it can be determine which ones were subjected to harder work and harsher treatment than others. This would point towards those individuals being slaves. I remember once a programme on TV where they recovered the bones of what turned out to be an pre-adolescent female slave. This was determined by the marks on here shoulders where the muscle attaches to the bone. These were elongated showing that she had carried a heavy weight for long periods of time. Presumably a small child, perhaps that of her owner. The skeletal remains also proved that she was to young to have had a child of her own. My Lady slavery has been around for a long time and in some forms it is still with us. Perhaps it is part of the Human condition to have someone else do all the hard dirty work while those who can enjoy the fruits.

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Sekhmet 
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 12:52 PM
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Some did very well living as a slave. ::watches the tomatoes being loaded::

There are accounts of slaves living in Rome, Egypt and later on in Constantinople who were, aside from the internal household pecking order, accorded respect because they were owned by a prominent person, and therefore their words and sometimes actions carried quite a bit of weight. They were dressed sumptuously (comparatively speaking), fed well, and housed comfortably because of their perceived worth, and because it was a show of their owner's wealth and prestige. A good and genuinely loyal slave was more precious than gold. A slave trained in a specialized skill commanded fortunes.

Gladiators were, in a strict sense of things, slaves. Yet a gladiator could be more popular than a rock star of today's world, with droves of admiring fans and yes, groupies who could range from other slaves to fine ladies. It wasn't unknown to have a gladiator "bred" in the hopes of having another just like him someday.

The American South had painted themselves into a corner with their cash (and labor intensive) crops , as had to a lesser degree the North. Northern industry and farming adjusted to having no slaves per se, but rather used immigrant labor to fill in the gaps and, it could be argued, treated them worse than some slaves in the South. It was actually easier to replace an immigrant than a slave. Just when the South could have feasibly done away with the institution, along came Whitney and his cotton gin.

Indenture was a nice way of saying "slave" in the earlier years of the colonies. A person was literally bought and sold, either in the Old Countries or when the ship landed in the colonies, though there was a nicety of the "indenture" having the price tag rather than the person itself. And yet they were treated the same way. Criminals, the indigent, or those who fell upon misfortune on the boat or shortly beforehand would be required to serve out their indenture in the form of labor for a set amount of years. Merchants and ship captains would buy another's indenture and bring them over to be sold at market or in private transactions.

While on paper most indentures had an expiration date, very often "extensions" were imposed for expenses both real and imagined in order to draw out the terms. Many died without ever seeing the end of their terms. Children were often required to serve family members' indentures when they died before the contract was up.

Wow, I just went on two totally different subjects there, sorry about that. I'm in the process of doing a talk on industry in the North come the Civil War years, so some of this is still front loaded on the brain. LOL

Here, have some fun with this: http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/aapchtml/aapchome.html

And this:

http://history.org/Almanack/life/Af_Amer/aalife.cfm

I'll go back to work. tongue.gif



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Sekhmet 
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 12:55 PM
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Camac
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 02:05 PM
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Sekhmet;
Slavery is Slavery no matter how benevolent it may seem (to quote Dante "All Hope Abandon, Ye who Enter Here") this can also apply to Slavery. It is to say the least Dehumanizing. The Slave has absolutely no control over his life or disposition
and lives or dies at the whim of another. A Gladiator might have had the status of s modern day Rock Star but his chances of living long enough to receive the Wooden Sword were slim.


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Sekhmet 
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 05:01 PM
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I'm far from glamorizing the institution. What I *am* saying is that slavery has several faces and names. What's more interesting to me is the permutations that it took with different cultures and ages, and how they were viewed by those at the time. We can sit back all day and judge this civilization or that country and play with our hindsight to our hearts' content, but I tend to look at those who actually had to live those lives, how they managed to do so, and how they fit in with those around them.

There's dehumanizing everywhere. I can tick a dozen examples off the top of my head in America alone that's going on right this second. My questions are how they got there, how they live with it, and how the rest of society views it, what opinions they give about it in public, and how they actually behave.
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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 06:38 PM
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QUOTE (Camac @ 16-Jul-2008, 10:00 AM)

LOA;

There is assumption that slavery was practiced in pre-recorded time and there is also evidence in the skeletons recovered from ancient sites. By comparing the bones of a group of individuals it can be determine which ones were subjected to harder work and harsher treatment than others. This would point towards those individuals being slaves. I remember once a programme on TV where they recovered the bones of what turned out to be an pre-adolescent female slave. This was determined by the marks on here shoulders where the muscle attaches to the bone. These were elongated showing that she had carried a heavy weight for long periods of time. Presumably a small child, perhaps that of her owner. The skeletal remains also proved that she was to young to have had a child of her own. My Lady slavery has been around for a long time and in some forms it is still with us. Perhaps it is part of the Human condition to have someone else do all the hard dirty work while those who can enjoy the fruits.

Camac.

I am still sceptic about the fact that slavery existed during the cavemen era.
As you say yes scientists found evidence through bones comparison of individuals that some may have worked harder then others but then again these cavemen tribes were also nomads so of course they would have travelled long distance.

And most probably the women would cary the heavy loads for the men would've need to be on alert for defense. At that time there was not too many babies surviving for lack of food and if the tribe had to move because of it they would let the babies behind of kill it for food.

And I agree that slavery has several faces and names.
Trought times slavery would change name. Maybe by changing it some would think it fashion somehow. In medieval times some were call serf or villains later it would be servant but they all had one thing in commun, serve a master with no pay and long labour hours,little food mostly leftover that turned stale or just killed because he made the mistake to lookup in his master's eyes.

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Camac
Posted: 16-Jul-2008, 08:54 PM
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LOA;

My Lady go to Google and type in "Origins of Slavery" there are many sites about the subject.


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LadyOfAvalon 
Posted: 17-Jul-2008, 07:22 AM
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Maybe it's time for another topic that would be of more interest to members. Google is a fine reference I agree but what is the use of a forum discussion where people can exchange their knowledge and discuss over different subjects,if some of the replies are suggesting to go on to Google to find more information.

No offense taken or given either way.

Thanks,

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Camac
Posted: 17-Jul-2008, 08:03 AM
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QUOTE (Lady of Avalon @ 17-Jul-2008, 07:22 AM)
Maybe it's time for another topic that would be of more interest to members. Google is a fine reference I agree but what is the use of a forum discussion where people can exchange their knowledge and discuss over different subjects,if some of the replies are suggesting to go on to Google to find more information.

No offense taken or given either way.

Thanks,

smile.gif LOA

My Lady;
You are correct and we should stick to our own thoughts and comments about the subject rather than take the easy route of eliciting Google. I apologize.



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Patch 
Posted: 17-Jul-2008, 11:15 AM
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Many of my ancestors came here as "indentured servants." Though it was for limited time, it was a form of slavery.

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John Clements 
Posted: 17-Jul-2008, 01:22 PM
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I know that my Mother scrubbed floors as a “domestic”, when she came to the US from Paisley at the age of thirteen. Sounds like slavery to me?


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Patch 
Posted: 17-Jul-2008, 02:48 PM
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Most came in poverty and had no choice. The biggest hurdle was when they arrived. If they were ill, at best they were quarantined and at worst they would be sent back. If they had no money to pay for a ticket the were shipped home like animals. None found America to be the land of "milk and honey." It sure must have felt like slavery.

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Camac
Posted: 18-Jul-2008, 09:06 AM
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QUOTE (Patch @ 17-Jul-2008, 02:48 PM)
Most came in poverty and had no choice. The biggest hurdle was when they arrived. If they were ill, at best they were quarantined and at worst they would be sent back. If they had no money to pay for a ticket the were shipped home like animals. None found America to be the land of "milk and honey." It sure must have felt like slavery.

Slàinte,    

Patch    

There is no denying that new working class or poor immigrants to North America a hundred years ago had a rough go of it but it was not slavery. Drudgery and exploitation yes. Labour Laws were either non-existent or inaffective and employers could and did get away with murder. The main difference though was that the immigrants had the freedom of movement. They could look for better , if any, employment and had some standing with the law. These are denied to a slave. A slave exists only at the whim of his or her master. They were under the Law, property. A good horse had more worth than them. An immigrants children were born free and had the opportunity of schooling. A slaves child was just another commodity that could be sold or worked. I am not minimizing the conditons which immigrants lived and worked under and yes to many it felt like slavery but in comparison to a slave their lives, as such, were better.


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